London Calling

Lots of news coming out about ADAPT next week and I’ve been burning the midnight oil. However I do have a note that may interest some of you in London.

A NYC based documentary filmmaker is currently filming a project about the changing business of Hollywood filmmaking.  She recently interviewed me about the international subsidy race and will be in London to film in August.  She’s looking to interview people who can address the impact of the film incentives in London.  She’s particularly interested in speaking with people who counter my views.  Anyone interested in being part of this documentary should email her at:

MadhouseMuse (at) Gmail (dot) com

Soldier On.


50 Responses to London Calling

  1. I’m hoping she’s open to documenting both sides in London or anywhere.

  2. Dan Sukiennik says:

    Is there a chance Vancouver will finally die a horrible death ?

    ┌──┐ ▓▒░ Ðani └──┘

    Ðàni (via phone)


    • minoton says:

      Seems to be a dead link.

      • mananama says:

        Apply to TFW only, does not apply to those US candidates who still apply with NAFTA credentials. I work in Vancouver now, we only have maybe 1-2% TFW. Most folks came circa ’06-08, most are now Permanent residents (very easy to get with Canadian experience class) or are new citizens. This will make an a very minor dent in the search for talent.

      • minoton says:

        Sounds like it’s either you move to Canada to become Canadian, or you get delayed while they search for a qualified Canadian. If your life situation is such that you can’t, or don’t want to move permanently to Canada, you can kiss your job good-bye.

        “By limiting access to the program, tightening the labour market assessment and implementing stronger enforcement with tougher penalties for employers who break the rules, businesses will have to make greater efforts to recruit and train Canadians for available jobs, including increasing wages.”

        “To offer greater clarity and transparency, the current TFWP is being reorganized and new International Mobility Programs (IMPs) are being created. The TFWP will now refer to those streams under which foreign workers enter Canada at the request of employers following approval through a new Labour Market Impact Assessment (LMIA). The new IMPs will incorporate those streams in which foreign nationals are not subject to an LMIA, and whose primary objective is to advance Canada’s broad economic and cultural national interest, rather than filling particular jobs. These reorganized programs will improve accountability, with Employment and Social Development Canada (ESDC) being the lead department for the TFWP, and Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) the lead department for the IMPs. In addition, ESDC will publicly post data on the number of positions for temporary foreign workers approved through the TFWP on a quarterly basis, and will post the names of corporations that receive permission to hire temporary foreign workers through LMIAs.”

        “Employers seeking to hire high-wage temporary foreign workers (with very limited exceptions) will now be required to submit transition plans to demonstrate how they will increase efforts to hire Canadians, including through higher wages, investments in training and more active recruitment efforts from within Canada.”

      • minoton says:

        @mananama, from the ‘live’ Relocate magazine article:

        International Mobility Program

        As mentioned above, the new IMP will include LMIA-exempt work permit applications such as Intra-Company Transfer (ICT) and applications based on Free Trade Agreements.

        Evidently is does apply to NAFTA agreements.

      • vfxmafia says:


        You are correct in your assumption that the Canadian gov will eventually force companies to hire Canadians or Permanent Residents already up here. Im already starting to see Vancouver companies start to get low on their foreign worker visas up here.

        Problem for Canada is that there are no Canadians up here. The entire country has less population than California. with a population of 35 million from here to Toronto…..there just isn’t that many artists in the population with an apptitude for VFX.

        Canada will try to absorb the workers already up here (not like its coming back to LA)

        What i am see is a closing window for LA VFX workers. If you haven’t moved up here already…….chances are you won’t be asked to come up. There is plenty of UK workers already over here….along with 2 thirds of LA.

        What i am also seeing is the Canadian artists are making less than the UK and the US artists. Maybe its because Canadians are very polite people…..LOL

      • vfxmafia says:

        @ Dan

        To answer your own question….”Most of the changes to the TFWP affect low-skill/low-wage positions”

      • Rob says:

        “What i am also seeing is the Canadian artists are making less than the UK and the US artists.”

        Numbers? Because that doesn’t sound believable to me. I’ve done the math a number of times in recent years and at least London is always last place by a long shot due to the high living costs and unpaid overtime. I suppose there is unpaid overtime in Canada too but as far as I’m aware, it’s not standard practice.

      • Andreas jablonka says:

        I think he meant uk workers in Canada make more than canadians. Similar to kiwis making less at weta than non kiwis.

      • vfxmafia says:


        Rob let me clarify that statement. What I am seeing is confined to Vancouver.

        I am seeing alot of US and UK vet talent coming to Van from all over….including ILM guys who are on the migrant trail….WETA personel migrating here…..and Veteran X-LA talent. These people are commanding decent money. Canadians are still in the process of getting their Hourly Rates up. (they seem to be learning fast however)

        I am X-LA now living in Vancouver. Thats all i can comment about. But Yes….from what i hear….the VFX guys in UK are getting boned in the UK. I heard like the average salary there is like 40,000-70,000 pounds?

      • Rob says:

        I see. Yes, I guess things can be different for veterans. Although I’ve met some who have been in the industry for 10-15 years and who were doing just as many unpaid hours as the mid-level guy next to them. “That’s just how it is in London”, they said. Not with a particularly upbeat tone of voice.
        You’re right about the 40-70 range. But even though 70K pounds is 129K CAD, with an average of 10% unpaid overtime a year, that artist is really looking at a base salary of 116K CAD. And if I’m correct, that 40-70 range (low mid-level to super senior or something?) is about 55-120K CAD in Canada?
        If you also take taxes and cost of living in account (not to mention 1.5x or even 2x vs. 1.0x overtime), I don’t see how UK artists could be making less in Vancouver – veterans or not. Unless you maybe only compare gross salary without considering these other factors. But at least to me, the only thing that is important is what’s left in my bank account after I pay the bills.

      • Andreas jablonka says:

        So in comparison the x la veterans are making 140-160k usd per year.

    • minoton says:

      The link seems to be live again:
      This seems to put things in more layman’s terms. Something I don’t recall in the original article and may be an update:


      Employers in Canada who currently sponsor foreign employees through any work permit stream, or who will sponsor foreign employees in the future, should take close note of the above-listed changes to the TFWP and the rollout of the new IMP. These extensive changes will affect nearly all aspects of the corporate immigration process into Canada: new requirements for sponsoring companies, new qualifying criteria for foreign employees, new application fees, additional inspections, and more severe penalties for non-compliance.

      As with any change, processing times for all classes of work permit applications will most likely be delayed for the upcoming weeks. CIC, ESDC, and Border Officers will continue to receive training on the new regulations, and will require time to streamline their own adjudication systems

      • I’ve heard indirectly about at least one vfx worker getting placed into limbo due to these changes. Hired to work in Canada but unable to actually come and work due to these changes. Suspect there are more.

        There’s also an impact for live action since there are also time notice limitations so productions can bring up people at the spur of the moment.

      • Hanging Out @ Milanos says:

        “I’ve heard indirectly” = BS.

      • Do you really think I come on here using my real name and make stuff up? I receive emails and info frequently from others about a number of issues. I provide links to articles and research when possible. In many cases I can’t provide a link since either it’s been requested I don’t (fear of blacklisting) or it’s something in progress. Just because you haven’t experienced something doesn’t make it false.

      • hmmmmmm says:

        I don’t understand why the Canadian artists haven’t unionized. If they all make less and they are needed then why do they accept that? Why aren’t people more transparent about wages in general?

      • jay_gould says:

        your quote:
        “I don’t understand why the Canadians don;t Unionize”

        Actually there are lots of limitations to Unions these days. The modern labor landscape with moving borders and international oversight of the big six…….has crimped Unions effectiveness.

        .1. Unions can’t stop subsidies…especially from Provence to Provence.

        2. Unions can’t stop the collusion of the Big 6 Studio execs….(they need artists to stand up and be apart of the lawsuit). Even then its hard enough to basically sue Disney and Dreamworks.

        3. Canadians have state run health care…..and social safety net for unemployment etc…….which kind of takes away the Union benifits arguement.

        Also who is to say that the pension fund will be around in 50 years? If California companies can be wiped off the face of the map…so can California unions (especially if more workers leave)

        4. Unions are NOT easy to form. Unions take like %80 of the workers to sign cards….then its a year of negotiations….takes like 2-3 years, and most contracts end before that time.

        5. The MPAA and Big 6 studios have huge influence over foreign governments.

        As far as your concerns…about Canadian wages……

        Now that work is offically up here and you are starting to see Canadians with 3-5 years experience of huge shows. They are starting to get wise to peak wages and salary fixing, and how much shots really cost.

      • Actually there are already unions in Canada. The IA is Vancouver and other areas already.

        >.1. Unions can’t stop subsidies…especially from Provence to Provence.

        No, but if it’s setup like the US you can go from place to place and still get union hours and coverage. Camera crew from LA work all over, still get covered. Same with the other guilds.

        >2. Unions can’t stop the collusion of the Big 6 Studio execs….(they need artists to stand up and be apart of the lawsuit). Even then its hard enough to basically sue Disney and Dreamworks.

        Don’t forget the rest of Hollywood (and even the live action crews in BC) are union. The Animation Guild has already dealt with fake payroll companies and the only way to have some power is to be organized. A union of 3000 has much more power than a lone vfx person.

        >3. Canadians have state run health care…..and social safety net for unemployment etc…….which kind of takes away the Union benifits argument.

        No. It may not be as cut and dried as it is in the US but there are still a number of benefits, including additional benefits on top of government coverage. Health care itself isn’t the only reason for a union.

        >Also who is to say that the pension fund will be around in 50 years? If California companies can be wiped off the face of the map…so can California unions (especially if more workers leave)

        You can say that about anything these days. Something may happen in 50 years so lets not even try to do something.

        >4. Unions are NOT easy to form. Unions take like %80 of the workers to sign cards….then its a year of negotiations….takes like 2-3 years, and most contracts end before that time.

        All the reason to start today. There is already an IA in Canada. Somehow the unions have been able to cover commercial production companies where the avg shoot time is 1-2 days. Somehow they’ve managed to cover quite a bit of other areas. If you’re working on a film 1 month – 1 year, sign up for union. Even if you leave if your card is on record the union can use that for an extended time afterward. (I don’t recall the specific lifetime but it certainly doesn’t stop being valid the day you stop working at a specific company)

        >5. The MPAA and Big 6 studios have huge influence over foreign governments.

        As long as it’s not China, where unions are not allowed by the government, you can get unions and union coverage. Once again there is already live action union coverage in Canada.

        >Now that work is offically up here and you are starting to see Canadians with 3-5 years experience of huge shows. They are starting to get wise to peak wages and salary fixing, and how much shots really cost.

        Yes, but as lone individuals they likely won’t be able to leverage much and get what they’d like, especially with the flood of other workers. Most likely there will be a lowering of wages for everyone since it’s now a captive audience as it were. Less opportunities and the threat of subsidies elsewhere etc.

        Bottom line is people seem to be happy and more than willing to give up rights and opportunities. Plenty of poor Americans have been voting to lower their opportunities, care and survival due to pure ignorance and being hoodwinked by corporations and the rich.

        Look at all the failings in Montreal. If they had been union that would not have happened. Look at R&H with people scrambling to try to collect their pay due them. Once again, if you have an organization of workers (Guild) that type of stuff is much less likely to happen. The unions have lawyers and other experts they can get involved. Unions in most countries are also cover by specific laws and have certain leverages that individuals don’t have.

        For those actually interested in trying to do something (and right now places like Vancouver have leverage since that’s where work is flowing) and protect themselves and the future, I would suggest doing a little research on the unions. Plenty of websites now with information.

        If you’re at SIGGRAPH this year consider going to their booth and getting direct information.

      • jay_gould says:


        Until Unions can stop black lists and salary fixing……and subsidies…..those are 3 most important issues to me.

      • Unions can deal with wage fixing and most gray/illegal issues.

        They set the wage min and bargain for other related issues (breaks, etc)

        Just because it doesn’t cover 100% of problems doesn’t mean it’s if no value.

        In terms of subsidies unions can support local subsidies, as they are in LA for Calif., and can support things like ADAPT. All up to members of the guild what actions the guild takes and what they do with funds.


      • Had the collusion between vfx companies and tech companies been dealing with guild members, they could represent the artists rather than artists simply getting form letters.

      • jay_gould says:


        the union can be useful for somethings……but there are major limitations to the Unions reach.

        Lets face it the union couldn’t call a strike. The unions tools to fight things seems limited (case in point of the salary fixing scandal). I would also go so far as to say as ADAPT and what you and Daniel have been doing is far more promising in alot of ways than what the union has been doing.

        I am waiting to see if the Union can actually act on the salary fixing scandal…..(seeing that Disney and Pixar and Dreamworks are union shops). If the Union can’t protect these people salarys than the concept of the Union has been beaten.

        Unions have been getting weaker since Reagan waged war against them. And what has happened in Wisconsin with anti-union legislation……that and you mix how hard it is to start a union.

        If the Union could foot the bill for the CVD lawsuit……then i would be impressed with the union. Or what good is all those union dues if the union doen’t use it as a lobby? I know the Union can’t throw $40,000 a plate dinners for Obama like Katzenburg…..but could the Union and the fricking VES throw a couple hundred grand at these lawyers to jump start the CVD case?

      • The companies and studios have no problem using every tool they can to make profits and to control their future. I don’t see why vfx workers refuse to do so. (i.e. union, ADAPT, etc) Everyone seems to think they can only place bets on 1 thing and that one thing has to be perfect. Hedge your bets – support all the things that can, will, should or might make a difference.

        >Lets face it the union couldn’t call a strike.

        Actually they could. Strikes are of course the big stick and the last things unions actually want to use. BUT if the membership wants to strike and votes to do so, there is a strike. Keep in mind for most unions, including Hollywood unions, you can’t strike while both sides are adhering to a contract that both sides negotiated. No point in having a contract if work can be stopped at any point by anyone.

        In the case of the Montreal studios if they had a union contract and failed to pay the workers, the union could file lawsuits and call for a strike/walkout. Work would stop right then and there and the vfx company would have to scramble to fix the situation. Now they just bluff all workers to continue working until they deliver the product. Workers lost out. Same at Pixomondo and other companies.

        People think it’s the union leaders that call a strike but al they can do is call for a strike vote. Now for any strike in vfx to happen there of course have to be first and foremost union workers (i.e. if no one is willing to sign no with union it will never happen), majority of workers have to sign on to a union. Here in US majority signing would make that company a union company. Not sure of Canada details.

        Ideally there would be enough coverage of companies and workers that a union would have leverage. The writers guild went on strike a few year ago. The contract (most are 3 years) had expired and the writers felt they were getting no where with the studios/producers regarding a new contract. The members voted to go on strike. All work stopped on any written scripts.

        Networks had to show repeats and many films had to be put on hold or rushed before he strike went into affect. It affects all major studios and they brought Hollywood to a stand still.

        >(seeing that Disney and Pixar and Dreamworks are union shops). I

        Actually Pixar is not a Union shop. Neither is iLM these days. Nor is Apple ,Google, etc. So we’ll have to see how much power the lone animation guild has in this but’s certainly more than the lone individual.

        >And what has happened in Wisconsin with anti-union legislation……
        Keep in mind this is for public unions. The politicians spent all the money they were supposed to have been putting in union pensions and benefits but instead they spent it on subsidies or other political games. If this were done by a private company they’d likely be on trial.

        >if the Union could foot the bill for the CVD lawsuit……then i would be impressed with the union. Or what good is all those union dues if the union doen’t use it as a lobby?

        Once again the members could specifically request and vote on it. In the case of the Animation Guild they are also part of the bigger IA but each local in theory is supposed to be able to do what they want regarding subsidies and at least a % of their funds.

        If there had been a US or California vfx union I think they would have put money into the CVD effort. But there wasn’t because vfx workers failed to sign rep cards or show any interest in doing so.

        Where the animation guild sits on this and what support they offer will depend much on the animation guide members. For those who are animation guild members you might want to discuss with union leaders and other members.

        History continues to repeat itself. VFX workers in US don’t think the guild offers them anything and is of no value. The y get laid off or run into problems at work and then they realize one of the many things the union offers, they want to finally join the union, after it’s too late.

        Vancouver, Montreal, UK, etc all have the same exact opportunity and yet are refusing to do so for the same exact reasons and when things start crashing down soon they will try to join the union after it’s too late.

        Unions, as all groups of people, are not perfect but their main purpose is to stand together and protect their members who cover a specialized area.

        Sign a card. The card is protected and private. (i.e. your company doesn’t know unless you tell them) In US you don’t pay dues until the company majority votes for it.

        Not sure what people think they have to lose. Heck you can sign a card and if/when it comes up for the official vote, you can change your mind (if you want) and not vote for it.

      • vfxmafia says:

        @ scott

        Scott thanks for taking the time to respond. I always look forward to your knowledge base and insight.

        I believe you asked the question why don’t VFX artists stick there neck out to form Unions?

        1. Black Lists.
        We all know they exist. And now because of Lawsuit we now have proof that Studios and giant VFX facilities have blacklists…..we know how they collude openly and get away with it…..without the slightest resistance from the Justice Dept. (not alone the union)

        Why stick my neck out? While the corporate officers including the CEOs and HR can act with impunity and free of criminal allegations.

        Also people wont back you (in Canada its a very weird mix of International artists who dont share your positive sentiment about unions)….and if you fill out the union cards… don’t think they are tracking these people? Its hard enough finding work….but there is no protection from black listing…..whether its from my own Justice Dept or unions….

        2. Subsidies
        Until Subsidies are stopped… one has a contract long enough at a shop to start a union. It take like 2-3 years to get shop converted to Union. I don’t know which country my next job will be in 3 years…..I will be lucky enough just to stay in the same company….not alone start a union branch in it.

        Lets face it, starting a union is tough…you need 80% of the company approval…..then 1-2 year negotiations…..until it becomes easier AND quicker to start a union…….its an excersise in futility. I signed my card for Culver city Imageworks…..what did they do? Move the whole shop to Van………it is easier to win a lottery then to convert a shop to Union.

        Then if that is not enough……now that they hold a work Visa over me……which i can be kicked out of Canada… want me to start trouble in another country? Great i get to be kicked out of the land of jobs and go back to California…..where there is no jobs and bunch of empty promises of what the union can do for me in 3 years time ?!

        3. Salary Fixing…..
        Now that Lawsuit reveals that Katzenburg and Dreamworks are in it…..forgive me if im wrong about this but Dreamworks is a Guild shop……so what is the Union doing about it?

        I saw that the union is asking people to come forward to be apart of the lawsuit…..will there be lawsuit? Will the Union contribute to ADAPT and jump start the CVD case?

        I have more faith in Daniel than i do the union….

      • Blacklisting – Don’t go running through the halls shouting ” I signed my union card!”

        Everybody is shaking in their boots. Does everyone really want to continually work for companies and small minded people? Keep the blinders on and keeping silent will not stop what’s happening, it only lets it happen easier and quicker with no chance to recover.

        If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
        George Washington

        All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
        Edmund Burke

        >.no one has a contract long enough at a shop to start a union. It take like 2-3 years to get shop converted to Union.

        You don’t have to start the union. You don’t have to be there 3 years. If the workers at R&H, DD, Meteor, Imageworks, etc had signed on before they ran into trouble, things would have been a bit different.

        if majority filled out cards anywhere (small or large shop) then the paperwork and voting could start quickly. Imagine for the moment that most of the workers where you are now had the guts to sign a rep card without talking about it? The union would be filling papers within a week. If people drag their feet and 1 person a month signs a rep card out of a hundred people, then it will take a long time. People seem to forget they have the power to sign up, make it happen and by and large they determine the speed at which it can proceed. Sure there will be paperwork and steps to be taken but none of that can happen until people sign up and once a vote is taken then it will be implemented.

        >3. Salary Fixing…..

        Talk to the guild at SIGGRAPH this year. Call them up or email them.

        Likewise go and see Daniel speak.

        Get answers and loo toward the future. The past is done.

      • vfxmafia says:

        @ Scott..

        you can quote George Washington all you like, but what does it mean when Obama comes to town and the first person he sees is Katzenburg?…(who is also at the heart of the price fixing scandal)…(who is alos Obama’s chief fundraiser)

        When people should be going to jail…..all i get is snappy quotes….the system is broke, the unions are broke, and so is the Justice dept….

        I have spoken with Steve Kaplan……who is doing what he can by the union by laws and the laws of California. Steve seems pretty fustrated and is trying to do something behind the scenes. Steve also needs people to stand up and be apart of the possible lawsuit…….

        how come no one of the union shop of Dreamworks wouldn’t even wear a green tee shirt?……

        I would happily start a union orginization in Van but i don’t think the jobs will be hear when the subsidies move… 2-3 years.

        And again to beat a dead horse….

        The #1 problem facing VFX artists is subsidies….and Unions cant do Jack to stop them…….

        The #2 problem facing VFX artists is salary fixing….and a huge union shop (Dreamworks is implemented in it)….and hopefully Steve and the Union can make something happen.

        Also why is Dan and this blog so quiet about the largest scandal to hit this industry? (the salary-fixing)

      • Jackadullboy says:

        Nothing.. To… Lose.

      • vfxmafia says:

        @Scott Squires

        Is it true? …..because there is a US Union and Canadian Union (which are essentially cooperative entities)……the US Union won’t contribute to ADAPT (or the CVD case) because banning Canadian subsidies would essentially harm the Canadian Union. (and that would be against Union by-laws)

      • I don’t speak for the union so you’ll have to ask their reps directly. I have been told by union reps that the IA has no pro/con regarding subsidies and leave that to locals.

      • vfxmafia says:

        Thanks anyway Scott…..

        That enigmatic and very nuetral response really makes me scared to ask Kaplan now …..LOL

      • Andreas jablonka says:

        As much as I want Kaplan and Iatse to take a stand they do represent workers rights. Not any particular region. If bc thrives, LA suffers and vice versa. I’m sure the individuals are not sharing the opinion of their employers…

    • jay_gould says:

      @ Scott

      you are correct. What I have seen up here in Vancouver (since moving up here from LA) …is the “Golden Willie Wonka” Work Visas are tightening. If your in L.A., the truth is you will either move where the subsidies go (either Vancouver or worse) ……..or you will quit the business…….

      Special thanks to the billionare club who thinks our wages should be lower…..(Ed Catmull, J. Katzenburg, and friends)….who turned me into a Grapes of Wrath migrant fucking digital VFX worker…

      • RapW says:

        Maybe if you were better, you could get a better job and ask for more money.

      • jay_gould says:


        I really didn’t understand that comment/ question. Chalk that one up as a really vague response.

      • Thales says:

        Most digital VFX workers are migrants. Nothing new here.

      • soldiers_friend says:

        We are at the same shelf as seasonal fruit pickers. Nomads moving around looking for work to feed ourselves or our far living families..
        No strawberries in Spain anymore, we need to move to France or UK. We are mostly f***d in a winter time since there is no strawberries at all in Europe, hence we have to move very far like NZ or AUS. But hey! In spring we get back to Spain – the strawberry season will start!

  3. it would seem the Relocate magazine website is having some real problems

  4. LAskyline says:

    Given the generally anti-subsidy slant of her Twitter feed there’s zero chance of anyone in London with any real insight into the situation taking part in this doc. Might get a few displaced non-EU people on the shop floor complaining about having to leave home. That’ll be it.

    • Andreas jablonka says:

      If not being able to change somebody’s opinion is an indicator half if this blogs uk movers should talk to her! They constantly say daniel
      Is wrong 🙂

      • street_fighting_man says:

        sounds like another unemployed LA VFX worker doing a documentary. What good is it gonna do for migrant VFX workers? LA is smouldering hole where film was once made.

  5. chexmix says:

    so where was this wonderful documentary when i had to move out of LA 2 years ago? Tell me something i dont know ……WHAT? I have to move to save my job?

  6. d3d says:

    Working at one of the major vfx shops in London at the moment. This week a bunch of the crew is being let go, while they are hiring for the same positions in Montreal. Tax credits? Hm..

  7. soldiers_friend says:

    Of course tax credits.
    Can your house actually ask you to relocate ‘within’ the company?
    I dont think so as most probably its not in your contract of employment. So ”legally” (in this legitimate business) they can not do that. The way around: they need crew in montreal so they’ll let you go, but if you are serious about your career then you’ll consider moving there.

    • d3d says:

      Yes, they did ask if anyone wanted to go. Being from the US (and never having visited Montreal) I said sure. Then somehow things got slow, they said they’d talk to us later, then just started posting again recently.

      But no, you’re right, they couldn’t just send us. Just wanted to point out that tax credits affect the UK houses too, even if the artists have repeatedly told me they do not.

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