VFX Artists Pen Piece Claiming Industry Discriminates Against Women

TechCrunch posted an article by VFX artists Sonya Teich and Raqi Syed entitled Visual Effects: The Gender Bias Behind The Screen.

The authors present a case that the reason for the low participation rate of women in the visual effects industry and the lack of discussion for this disparity is due to a culture of sexism and gender discrimination within the industry. The evidence presented in the article to support this claim are examples involving the use of “booth babes” by some companies at Siggraph, a porn mailing list at an unlisted company (I assume this is ESC Entertainment which went out of business over 10 years ago but some are saying this is Weta Digital?!), and a jest by a director who started his career as a VFX artist. To resolve the gender disparity, the authors propose the VFX industry begin to report data on female participation rates, change hiring and evaluation practices, and institute a quota system advocated by actress Geena Davis that would add hundreds of women incrementally to close the gender gap over a 4 year period.

Teich and Syed seemingly glanced over an important fact: While the participation rates of females are low in the actual technical creation of visual effects, generally speaking participation rates are quite high in corporate, administrative, financial, and production roles at visual effects companies. Many recruiters and producers are women and intimately involved in the crewing of VFX personal. If the authors’ claim of discrimination are true, why then would a large number of females involved in the crewing process effectively discriminate against other women?

Is there a discriminatory bias in the visual effects industry or is there something more subtle going on?

A few months ago I engaged in a conversation about this issue with a leading female producer. She disagreed that there was a bias against women in the industry and that the reason for gender disparity in technical creation of VFX is basically preference. That seem to be reiterated in studies on gender values concerning work:

In general, Rosenbloom’s study found, men and women who enjoyed the explicit manipulation of tools or machines were more likely to choose IT careers – and it was mostly men who scored high in this area. Meanwhile, people who enjoyed working with others were less likely to choose IT careers. Women, on average, were more likely to score high in this arena.

In another study:

Math-precocious men were much more likely to go into engineering or physical sciences than women. Math-precocious women, by contrast, were more likely to go into careers in medicine, biological sciences, humanities, and social sciences. Both sexes scored high on the math SAT, and the data showed the women weren’t discouraged from certain career paths.

The survey data showed a notable disparity on one point: That men, relative to women, prefer to work with inorganic materials; women, in general, prefer to work with organic or living things. This gender disparity was apparent very early in life, and it continued to hold steady over the course of the participants’ careers.

The authors’ proposal on solutions is also flawed. A few women on twitter who worked in VFX actually argued that a quota system would hurt their careers and wanted to be chosen for the job for the same reason many of us do: based on merit. Another issue is that even if a quota system was accepted, how would it be adopted? Most likely such a system would have to be mandated from the top by the big 6 studios who choose which VFX vendors get the work. One of those key decision-makers at the top is Marvel’s Victoria Alonso who I pointed out would take no course of action on the issue which the authors gave a pass to. “What leverage do you have?” is how the industry works, not by the fairness preached on podiums.

Lastly, I was severely disappointed in the authors tacit insinuation that this blog dismissed the discourse on gender. I’ve written about the issue amongst others as far back as four years ago. I also helped uncover pregnancy discrimination at LucasFilm, a company run by Kathleen Kennedy, a leading woman in the industry. What I discovered is that while the US has strong laws that allow people to sue for pregnancy discrimination and sexual harassment, countries where VFX work has been going don’t. “It’s a gloooobal industry!” as many proudly say.

I don’t delve too much into my personal bio on this blog but as a minority who grew up in a pretty bad part of LA and had various odds stacked against me, I’ve been grateful to have worked in the industry. While I was aware of the low rates of minorities in the industry, I never came to the conclusion that there was a racial bias in the industry. In fact, I consider VFX to be one of the most egalitarian institutions I have experienced. Unfortunately it is my observation that this latest piece suffers a similar fate as a recent post on MPC artists:

No actionable solutions, and a one way ticket for a ride in an industry on a highway to hell.

Soldier On.

195 Responses to VFX Artists Pen Piece Claiming Industry Discriminates Against Women

  1. sloore says:

    Very disappointed.

    Whether or not the citation of statistics was well executed, the point still stands. Sexism is a serious problem in the VFX industry. Go grab any ten VFX artists at random and at least half of them will relate a story of ACCEPTED behavior at a studio they worked at in the last couple years that would have gotten someone fired in just about any other industry in the US.

    And discrimination does not necessarily have to take the form of an explicit rule saying “group X gets less money or has to meet higher standards or won’t get hired as often.” It can exist in the form of tolerating a work environment that is overtly hostile to certain groups. And the ever present fear that affects both sexes of being labeled as “hard to work with” only makes these unpleasant environments all the more effective.

    Sure, a female VFX artist can file a complaint about inappropriate behavior, but due to the small nature of the industry, she would always fear that she would get blacklisted for “making waves.” Hell, every single SIGGRAPH panel or article I’ve seen regarding the issue of getting and keeping work in the industry makes a point to emphasize how hard it is to lose a bad reputation in this business and to always keep the boss happy.

    This goes hand-in-hand with the debate over unionization. The thing is that women have to put up with even more BS than their male counterparts due to the overly male dominated nature of the business. They may be the only woman in the entire place, which is alienating enough, but now they have to listen to the other dozen or so artists making jokes about the chest of the female lead in the movie, or the guy next to them talking about how “bitches be crazy.”

    And when I hear the likes of you and others in this industry seemingly dismiss these kinds of claims out of hand, it only seems all the more foolish on your part. An issue like this could give common cause to VFX artist-rights advocates and feminists which would in turn bring higher visibility to the issue and bring an extra ally into the fight on your side, but no, ignoring this problem is a far better solution.

    The VFX industry can get its employees work for 30 hours straight, accept late or missed paychecks, move to different countries or continents for work, and plenty of other crazy stuff. I imagine that getting them to stop acting like a bunch of asinine frat boys during office hours would be relatively easy by comparison.

    • parlance1 says:

      Thank you, sloore. “Disappointed” was exactly my reaction at seeing a blogger I’ve always respected take this point of view (though I could have predicted it as soon as I saw the title with the word “claiming”).

      “Lastly, I was severely disappointed in the authors tacit insinuation that this blog dismissed the discourse on gender”

      There may be something to that.

      • J in BK says:

        someone accused Dan on twitter of trying to be the “gatekeeper of VFX issues” and honestly i’m starting to believe it is true.

        Dan i’m astonished you thought writing this blog post was a good idea.

      • Disgruntled says:

        The lack of women in the VFX industry has ZERO to do with the behavior of the people in the VFX industry.

        There are simply more male students and more applicants into the VFX industry. As ANYONE has ever said before. Its all about the Demo Reel. Male or female name be damned. If the work kills that person is gonna get hired.

        Yes. Personalities matter to an extent. Artists who may be talented but are jerks wont get hired places. This may very well include a girl who goes all Social Justice Warrior on someone who cracks a “thats what she said joke”

        Stop taking a victimization approach to all this. Not everything in life is meant to be catered to everyone else. There aren’t as many women in VFX? WHO CARES?! Why does it even matter. Do as many women want to be in VFX as men do? No.

        And as Daniel pointed out. There are plenty of women in a lot of offices…they just may not be on a box.

      • Roxboro says:

        …hey, hoe come all the jerks are working and those who critiseze them are home?

      • larrygritz says:

        “WHO CARES?! Why does it even matter.”

        I care. I don’t want to be surrounded only by people who look and think like me. I want opportunity for all. Diverse teams are more creative. I want our work to be as good as possible, and that’s not happening when the industry and the culture systematically (though not necessarily purposely) excludes or discourages a large part of the potential talent pool.

        This is not unique to VFX, it’s pervasive in the tech world. It’s not just the work environment, it’s the whole educational and career pipeline leading up to it.

        Every post here that says “it’s not a problem,” “why should we care,” and “women don’t want / aren’t good at certain jobs” pretty much proves the point of the referenced article.

      • Disgruntled says:

        Larry

        You’re making huge assumptions and leads of logic.

        Who says there isn’t opportunity for all? In what what are women being oppressed or prevented from entering the industry?

        You’re saying the work isn’t as good as it can be because of lack of diversity? According to who? You? Your assuming that the lack of diversity, if there is one really, is deliberate. And that it somehow contributes to a lack of quality.

        Quite making assumptions to fit your pre-conceived ideas of what’s actually going on.

        And quoting me with explaining my logic is wrong proves absolutely nothing.

      • Jackadullboy says:

        If you think lack of diversity has to be ‘deliberate’ you don’t really understand the nature of discrimination.

        Even the the most ardent self-professed egalitarian has subconscious in-group out-group biases going on, that are out of his/her control.

        Unfortunately it’s the way we’re wired. That’s why it takes conscious institutional effort to change attitudes and behaviours, whether it be towards people of different skin-colour or gender.

    • sabretruthtiger says:

      ACTUALLY, men are discriminated against!!!!
      Women get a free pass because:

      1. Bosses think it’ll address a social balance if they hire more women.

      2. They’ll appear more politically correct and sensitive to the liberal religion that infests the VFX industry.

      3. Women are always socially popular because they’re not a threat to the rest of the men whereas you get competition between guys. Men’s instinct is to protect women and compete with men.Women are more socially adept also which helps them.

      Many more talented men get let go while less talented women are kept on at studios. It’s easier for women to get a job, it’s almost like they get a free pass. This is not to say there aren’t top women, of course there are but this happens more often than not.

      There are many more men in the industry because men are just more technically competent overall for one, but also women are put off VFX animation because they’re put off from the start by the tech aspects even if they can do the job. Women tend to go more for graphic design-type positions and we all know production and HR is heavily female dominated. This is because women are better organisers and are more socially adept which lends itself to dealing with personnel, one notices the PC police don’t jump on this female advantage and fight to put more men in HR and production, I wonder why?

      • PoorArtist says:

        I totally agree with you.
        I have seen my cases of female artists got jobs easer and faster than other male artists. For instance of getting a job as a compositor, most of females tend to get a compositing job right away after their education and move big studios with no problem; while male artist take few years only to become a compositor.

        Female artists don’t appreciate what they have now, and keep whinning to have more.

      • Brandon Benson says:

        Women often get designer roles too in shops. They do the design work while others have to comp and make the shit move.

  2. jonavark says:

    Document it and sue. Otherwise.. it’s bullshit from the usual suspects.

  3. lois says:

    So VFXSolder are you really saying that since you didn’t experience discrimination that it doesn’t exist in the industry? That is ignorant and very disappointing.

    • phoebius says:

      It is a dirty industry. Lots of money being around, there are many dirty practices inside vfx. I am sure Soldier knows about them.
      Without an Union, nothing will ever be fixed, nothing at all.

      • lois says:

        I understand that but that’s not what I’m wondering. I’m wondering if he really believes that there is no discrimination or harassment in the industry because he never experienced or witnessed it.

        The Entertainment industry is very dirty, manipulative, sexist, racist, homophobic, and ageist among other things. To some how believe that the VFX industry(which we all know is apart of the entertainment industry) has escaped those issues is naive and disappointing.

      • . says:

        totally

        backstabbing, dirty tricks, games, nepotism and cliques is how this industry really runs

        why ?

        it doesn’t make a profit and encourages politics and abuse

      • . says:

        It’s a dirty industry but vfx artists will stand behind vfx producers who play evil dirty tricks, especially if they are females

    • Disgruntled says:

      He’s talking about systemic discrimination against women. There will always be outliers or specific situations.

      You have to look at these things in the big picture before trying to pass laws/mandates/quotas.

      Simple fact is there are more men then women who want to be in the VFX industry. Look at any class at any school. Its the same issue with STEM majors at colleges. Even with all these programs and incentives to get more women in they still struggle to meet an imaginary quota of what they believe to be “fair”

      • lois says:

        You make it seem like women aren’t interested which is far from the whole truth. As another post pointed out that many women and minorities (including myself) were discouraged from getting into the field. Men, especially white men, have it easier then any other group. It’s not so simple as “not interested”. There is plenty of interest but far more discouragement, harassment, and discrimination. When you face that on a daily basis it gets tiring and for some they give up and go a much easier and safer route.

        Furthermore, I’m wondering what point he was trying to make. Was he saying that women/minorities don’t experience discrimination? It certainly reads that way. It’s frustrating to belittle others experiences simply because you did not witness them yourself.

      • Disgruntled says:

        Women are NOT AS interested as men. Absolutely.
        Like I said. Look at any classroom or school. More men are studying to get into this field.

        And vfx is a tough job to get into and keep. You gotta want it. If someone “discouraging” you from going to school for it is enough to stop you chances are you probably wouldn’t have made it anyway.

        I am a minority and I haven’t experienced any discrimination. Have I “behind the scenes” Or has it stopped me from getting a job? Who knows.

        What I do know that to simply say that there are less women in vfx due to some kind of social injustice or discrimination is GIANT leap.

      • Atomica says:

        “Women are NOT AS interested as men. Absolutely.
        Like I said. Look at any classroom or school. More men are studying to get into this field. ”

        Do you really think that discrimination only begins after school, that it’s a lovely level playing field with equal opportunities for all?

        Try this for size:

        “Latinos are NOT AS interested as anglo-saxon people. Absolutely. Like I said. Look at any classroom or school. More anglo-saxon people are studying to get into this field.”

        Because of course they had the same opportunities to get on that course. They must just prefer bringing you that glass of water when you sit down in a restaurant.

      • lois says:

        I don’t think you understand what I’m trying to say. It doesn’t start in College or even High School it start way way before then. All this discouragement isn’t based from School either. Your quite ignorant on the subject and its pretty clear you have no experience on the matter. I know plenty of women and minorities (including myself) working in the field but get tired of the crap they are put through and no its not just starting in a school environment as you like to point out.

      • Disgruntled says:

        @lois

        The topic being discussed is specifically the vfx industry, the discrimination in it, and implementation of a quota system. I’m arguing against that or the need for it.

        What you just brought up is larger than that. You’re discussing societal things having to do with how we raise and educate children. That’s a different topic with different issues/solutions.

      • lois says:

        As you stated above and below we are not just talking about VFX but also STEM. You can just talk about VFX without acknowledging Technology.

        Yes, what I brought up is larger then just looking into a classroom and not seeing a lot of women.
        “It’s easier to build strong children then to repair broken men”
        The incentives that have been made in recent years will help a much younger generation. But you can not honestly believe that these incentives will work right away? That’s not how it works. It’s better to start from the bottom and work up, children are more effected by negativity then adults and the way its handled with children will effect their choices. So it is bigger then that.

        It will be true for a while that more men are in VFX and STEM but with the incentives now being offered that will change. There are women, 20s-40s looking into changing careers (yes, I have met them), they are looking into Technology because they see a “Welcome sign” that wasn’t there before. Change is coming, slowly but surely.

      • Disgruntled says:

        Incentivising is alright I guess. But the premis of some of the comments and the article is that there is active discrimination and prevention of women entering vfx and or stem fields. And I call bs.

        Even with the incentives and promotions for women to study stem fields and careers they are still, by and large, not doing so.

        Does this mean that those fields/professors/employers are to blame? Absolutely not. But that’s not what the article would have you believe.

        People are free to pursue whatever they want. And women are choosing not to pursue vfx and stem careers as much as men do. And there is nothing inherently wrong with that.

        We need to stop with the idea that EVERYTHING NEEDS to be on parity. And shoe-horning a minority of anyone into half the positions in any given field for the sake of parity does a disservice to everyone.

        Equality of opportunity yes… But not forced Equality of results.

      • lois says:

        Okay, it pretty obvious that my experiences and the experiences of the women on here mean nothing to you. There is a real problem with men having women in the workforce it is not exclusive to one industry it is across the board.
        I did not say that women should be PUSHED into this field if they are not interested but it is interesting how your keep thinking that. What I’m saying and I have been saying is that there is discrimination and ignorance before and during the pursuit of a VFX/STEM career. There is a very real problem with how women/minorities are being treated. That is why this movement isn’t going to work because the only thing people like Daniel and yourself care about are yourselves.

        The incentives have not been around long enough to know whether they failed or not. Again, you have to start from the bottom up, encouragement is key. If a girl is interested that should not be frowned upon or shamed, which is often the case.

      • scappydoo says:

        Wow, not another one of these…
        You know, I don’t get it. Why does every freaking thing in the world have to be equally split between every type of person on the planet? Why is it wrong that more guys like to spend hours tweaking cool stuff on computers than gals? The fact that it is not a 50/50 split horrifies some and others start crying discrimination.

        Hey, my little sister is in a yarn-knitting club. For real. She gets together with other women and they knit and chat. There are no dudes in that club. Guess what? They are not discriminating. It is a self-selecting group.

        Hey, every notice that there are a ton of women VFX producers? If that’s the case, why aren’t they hiring more women? Oh right. Because there are more geeky guys applying and have experience.

        Ugh.

    • Disgruntled says:

      Atomica

      You’re arguing in hyperbole with analogies that don’t line up.

      Is it the problem of the vfx industry that as many women aren’t going to school for vfx or other STEM majors? Cause that’s what we’re talking about right now.

      What you’re alluding to are childhood education and raising of children which is a different subject outside the scope of the discus we’re trying to have.

      But like I mentioned on another post even with all the programs and incentives in recent years trying to get women into stem majors… Sometimes to the detriment of men who want to enter those majors… Men still out major women by a large margin in those fields of study.

      You’re talking about huge societal changes that make women want to enter these fields more. Only thing I can say is to raise your kids and young family members to want to do enter those fields. Buy when you start trying to force people into jobs or fields of study when they don’t really want to be there you’re getting into shady territory.

      • Jackadullboy says:

        As mentioned elsewhere, it’s not about forcing anyone into anything, or achieving parity.

        It’s about the following scenario, and whether it exists: a male and female candidate of equal ability apply for a post.. The male is favoured for post a disproportionate fraction of the time, for reasons that can only be attributed to gender.

        If the data points to the above being the case, then there is a culture problem in vfx.

  4. anon says:

    people making vfx and animation need to produce themselves as a team and reap the rewards of their work AFTER it is released

    it’s the ONLY way

  5. Earl Grey says:

    While I was aware of the low rates of minorities in the industry, I never came to the conclusion that there was a racial bias in the industry.

    Yet the VFX workforce remains mostly white. If the bias is not in the VFX industry itself, perhaps the bias lies in the road to the VFX industry. That is, you may have had a rougher time getting into VFX than a white man may have experienced.

    This is not unique to VFX. Neil Degrasse-Tyson has remarked on the barriers that minorities face before they even enter the science industry.

    Many recruiters and producers are women and intimately involved in the crewing of VFX personal. If the authors’ claim of discrimination are true, why then would a large number of females involved in the crewing process effectively discriminate against other women?

    Because the female recruiters are biased against women, too. Again, this problem is not unique to VFX.

    Science professors at American universities widely regard female undergraduates as less competent than male students with the same accomplishments and skills, a new study by researchers at Yale concluded.

    As a result, the report found, the professors were less likely to offer the women mentoring or a job. And even if they were willing to offer a job, the salary was lower.

    The bias was pervasive, the scientists said, and probably reflected subconscious cultural influences rather than overt or deliberate discrimination.

    Female professors were just as biased against women students as their male colleagues, and biology professors just as biased as physics professors — even though more than half of biology majors are women, whereas men far outnumber women in physics.

    • . says:

      there are no female Presidents either

      the UK too, only one woman Prime Minister

      equality doesn’t mean everyone has to do the same thing, it means everyone is treated fairly

      vfx is a hierarchy of cliques and abuses, it’s a failure in EVERY WAY

      except to the profits of people nobody in vfx ever meets

  6. Obi-Mom says:

    I am a woman and 20 year industry veteran. About eighteen years ago I overheard some of my male counterparts discussing their wages. They were making nearly double what I was. Enraged I went to the head of the company and was told that the amount of money the company had invested in my training more than made up for the wage disparity. When I pointed out that I had trained 3 of the men who made more than I did, I was rapidly shown the door.

    Ten years ago, at another facility, I was called into my producer’s office. The VFX Supervisor and CG Supervisor were there with her. They showed me a letter they’d received from a male co-worker, claiming that I, the current shot leader on our finals board, had traded sexual favors with my lead in exchange for help with my work.

    About five years ago at another facility, I had a child and was given an empty utility closet, totally unfurnished with a bare floor to pump breastmilk in. I was also told that because of my “familial obligations” I wasn’t being considered for a lead position I was very much qualified for. The position ended up going to man with half as much experience as myself. He also had 3 young children but apparently his familial obligations weren’t an issue.

    Two weeks ago, I was discussing a shot with my sequence lead who wrapped up the conversation by saying, “Thanks sweetie!” and patting my hip.

    It’s very easy to be oblivious to something when it NEVER happens to you. Jesus, this post burned me!

    • melanie says:

      Not as extreme.. but I have similar stories. The first one hit me the first moment i entered VFX. A coworker of mine who I had gone to school with and had followed the exact same career path (to the note) applied to same VFX house at the same time. He and I were comparable in terms of our animation and draftsmanship. We both got offered jobs. I found out months later that there was a 20,000 difference in the INITIAL offer. I spent 2.5 years at this VFX house and my salary trailed exponentially.

    • hmmmmmm says:

      As a female in the industry myself, I have had similar experiences. There is an unspoken questionability for our work when going to a new facility even with a strong reel. It’s like there is a bar set lower because they assume you aren’t going to work as hard. Being a woman in VFX means your work is generally worth less than men with comparable experience/reel quality and initial rate offers are always lower. Also, female recruiters/managers tend to be the most discriminatory as well.

    • 1010 says:

      awful

      “thanks sweetie” is still better than “fuck that guy, get rid of him because he’s better than me”

      these letters, the mistreatment, the lack of understanding insight and respect ……….. and the needless backstabbing on top of it……….are so typical of the petty malicious vfx producer politics

      I have stories too, but I am male, so I guess it doesn’t apply to this thread

  7. Alex says:

    „If I walked into a clothing store and I noticed there are a lot of women working there, am I going to say: why aren’t there more men working there? The reason is, some of the products are geared towards women.
    Whereas in Visual Effects the products we create – Transformers and Robots fighting each other – they are not really geared towards women“

    (https://vimeo.com/93413351 at 1 hour 13)

    • vfxProfessional says:

      wow no wonder Dan Lay failed as leader, who would follow an idiot like this.

    • larrygritz says:

      “Visual Effects the products we create – Transformers and Robots fighting each other – they are not really geared towards women“

      Well, that’s SOME of the VFX we create. We also create VFX for much more human stories, not to mention animated films geared to children and families.

      If your hypothesis is correct, you should see big variations in participation of women from facility to facility, depending on whether they tend to work on lots of bloody explosions, or cute kiddie cartoons. I don’t have scientifically gathered numbers, but in my experience, there is not a big difference. You do see a big difference from department to department — shaders versus matte painting, for example — which makes me think it’s the culture of the departments (and the academic fields that the departments draw from), not the kinds of films we work on. It largely mimics what you see in the rest of the tech field.

  8. sjon says:

    Ofcourse the might be the odd occasion in this industry but to say sexual discrimination is an issue?! you must be trippin’
    before whining (yes that’s what you’re doing) about how poorly women are treated you should try being a devoted republican or christian, or if you’re both: Texan. or ofcourse black or muslim is aleays fun. but even those black texans get a good job af they are talented.
    and sure someone will crack a bush joke once every while or offer you some chicken but that doesn’t make it a hostile environment now does it.
    in this industry you can be a transgender smurf but if your work is good you’ll get hired.
    simple as that!

    now get back to the kitchen!
    (see, now you made me do it)

  9. LINN MAW says:

    I guess its the way women and men brains differ. Men are good with 3d and map and stuff while women are good with multitasking and calculations. Women are smarter then men.

  10. Robert says:

    I work for a small VFX company. We currently have two women working here out of a staff of twenty to thirty. There have been more, but they’ve all ended up quitting.

    When a woman applies, our boss scours Facebook for photos of them. Hot ones get interviews. Uglies… well, you better have an amazing portfolio.

    When one of our latest female hires (one of the hot ones) came into the studio for the first time, one of my coworkers asked in all seriousness if the would be any issue with fucking her.

    Once, I heard one of our leads explain to one of the women that, no, it would feel really good for a woman to be raped, because the fear would make her so much tighter.

    Stuff like this is a constant. Yeah, we’re just one studio. But god, I hope we’re not a microcosm of the industry.

  11. WhyMe says:

    Thanks for explaining! It helps to know that people like me get slighted because we didn’t really want to be in this industry anyway. Btw, if u want to get ignored even harder by the boys, be really good at your job.

  12. Andreas Jablonka says:

    I taught at LA film school for year and I had maybe 2-3 girls in a class of 12 students. this school has a lot of financial help programs so its not just entitlement or affordability.

    I have worked with many woman in many facilities. As Daniel points out many were in HR, producers or coordinators. I worked with fantastic Lighting TD’s.

    there is a certain extra component when a bunch of geeky male artist suddenly get a female into their group. Yes the sexual aspects are definitely difficult to deal with BUT this happens in EVERY situation where woman enters a bar, club, social gathering. why would it be different in the workplace.

    Also if you the only hot guy in an all girls job im sure they talk about your buttocks too behind your back. Its unavoidable. does it make it right? no but thats human nature.

    I have worked with some female artist that only held their job because they were the quota female. or cute. mediocrity exists in both genders yet I see more females keep getting rehire because they they are nice to work with / look it.

    R&H and SPI were the best Ratio of men/female with 3/1 if not 2/1. It definitely made for a nicer work enviroment.

  13. kimlorang says:

    Hallelujah!! … and good point about administrative women!!! It has been my experience as a VFX woman that the men like to keep such adversarial women in these roles so that they have someone to blame other than themselves for the lack of female representation… So perhaps hire some women-friendly-women and keep ’em around DAMMIT!

  14. Very disappointed says:

    Producers and Recruiters have a role in staffing, but ultimatly decisions are with the directors/art directors who are more often than not male.

    A commenter has said, if it was flipped women would do the same thing to men–if they did, it would be wrong…and it doesn’t excuse this.

    Women were just as plentiful as men at my art college….but let’s be honest, how is that even part of anyone’s argument–does anyone really think there aren’t female artists interested in this industry, and that is why they aren’t as many in these studios? What century is this?

    This issue is not isolated to VFX, it’s all over the entertainment industry.

    Women do not want to be victims. They want to tell stories, create games, TV and Film like their male counterparts. It’s not the content, lack of skills or interest that’s keeping them out.

    • jonavark says:

      ” It’s not the content, lack of skills or interest that’s keeping them out.”

      Please post the documents, lists, lawsuits, or other information as proof that women are being turned down for jobs they’re capable of. I am not saying it doesn’t exist but without that.. there is nothing to talk about.

      • Very Disappointed says:

        Documents, studies lists and lawsuits add to the conversation, they aren’t a pre-requiste. What people experience in their careers is valid to discus.

        I worked at a studio for several years where I was one of 6 women to hundreds of men in creative artistic roles, and I question that disparity.

        Plenty of things to talk about.

      • jonavark says:

        Without them all we have are personal stories which can be erroneous and one sided.
        If you want to reveal your stories then you should, but they don’t prove that females are turned down for jobs they are capable of because of a gender bias.

      • Very Disappointed says:

        This article, which we are replying to, defends the idea that there is no gender bias because women are less interested in the “technical creation of VFX”. There seems to be agreement that there is a disparity, but argument in the reason for it. (BTW, I find it interesting that a community of individuals who strives to be seen as artists, would also say that women are less abundant because it’s somehow too technical and less of an art form.)

        In lieu of documents (in which, I’d like to remind, this article simply presents none but his opinion and the opinion of others to rationalize the non-existance of gender bias) In explaining the disparity….the alternative to thinking that no wrong doing is happening, is that women don’t have the interest or skill to do the work….which will sound like gender bias.

      • jonavark says:

        Show me the numbers. Otherwise it is just an assumption.

    • Jackadullboy says:

      Jonathan, to get down to nuts and bolts, what specific numbers would satisfy you, in addition to the obvious disparity in placement and salaries, and the various anecdotal reports of sexist and attitudes?

      • jonavark says:

        ” in addition to the obvious disparity in placement and salaries”
        “various anecdotal reports”

        Jack. If we’re going to accuse an entire industry of misbehaving we will need more then anecdotal reports. I also don’t see anything ‘obvious’ here. I see connections being made somewhat arbitrarily and a heavy does of political correctness affecting the discussion though.

      • Very Disappointed says:

        Jon,

        I didn’t have to go very far to find the statistics and numbers related to the disparities. The group Women in Animation post several articles done by reputable sources citing the disparities IN OUR INDUSTRY.

        http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-women-hollywood-usc-study-20140724-story.html

        More to the point, I think you’d have a difficult time finding a study that says a disparity doesn’t exist. At best, you’ll read articles which state that there may be improvements happening…..in an industry that has a problem.

        I don’t think you are on the same page with this discussion.

        I find it disturbing that you require stats when you disagree with what is being said–but VFXSoldier gets a free ride with his assumptions that the field is too technical and…well….he just hasn’t seen an issue.

        I’m not sure if you read his post, but VfX soldier postures that lack of women in VFX is due to their lack of interest in STEM….he is presenting this as a possibility. How then does he–or you, explain the disparity of women in other areas of content creation in entertainment…roles which rely less on those STEM skills?

      • VFX Soldier says:

        I used stem and studies on that as an example that instead of systematic discrimination, women and men generally have different values in different kinds of work. That’s doesn’t mean men or women are better than each other at working, it means we make choices based on preferences.

        Some of those preferences have to do with products that are generally popular with certain genders. For example, comic books are generally popular amongst men and enthusiasts end up working in that industry. That doesn’t mean women aren’t interested in it or can’t work and do a good job as comic book artists, but generally it’s a product popular with men and therefore and industry full of men.

        The same goes with the cosmetics and fashion industry. Fashion and cosmetics are products popular with women and therefore many enthusiasts become fashion designers and makeup artists. There are less men that end up working in those industries but that doesn’t mean they can’t do that work or there is discrimination.

        So even in nontechnical creative roles in VFX you’ll see a disparity. VFX films generally tend to be films targeted to male audiences. Not saying that women can’t like them but some movies are targeted and popular with certain gender demographics. Those films popular with women tend to be less driven by VFX while those popular with men have lots of VFX driving it. Given that popularity of a product with certain genders, you see a larger participation rate in those in that segment of the industry.

        >

      • Very Disappointed says:

        VFXSoldier,

        This thinking is what holds women back.

        I’ve had men diminish my success as an artist based on ideas you just presented. Would you attribute a mans ability to design / animate robots etc. to anything other than the years of training it took for him to attain his skills? It is unprofessional ( and gender biased) to attribute a skill to some stereotype. Being a professional in this industry means working on a wide range of content.

        Men and women may grow up having gender specific hobbies…but professional designers, modelers, animators, pre-viz artists, directors…..it’s our jobs as professionals to tell stories in many different capacities.

        This imbalance is also with directors. Do you think women arent interrested in telling stories that both men and women enjoy?

        There is no VFX heavy film that doesn’t rely on women in being in the audience too.

      • VFX Soldier says:

        I think you’re completely skipping over what I said. I never said women can’t design or animate. In fact I thought I made it pretty clear they can do the same job just as well.

        What we are talking about here is at a macro level why are we seeing certain genders choose certain industries to work in and the reason for that is that certain products made by an industry happen to be very popular with various genders. This isn’t discrimination by the system.

        I think you tacitly acknowledge my point that men and women grow up having gender specific hobbies. That’s important. It plays a huge role in our preferences which is why we are seeing gender groups work in specific industries.

        Sent from my iPhone

        >

      • jonavark says:

        You posted a ‘study’ from USC’s Media, Diversity, & Social Change Initiative. Seriously. They would never EVER publish ANYTHING that didn’t fit their agenda. Seriously. And that article was focused on acting, funding and directing.Not what we’re talking about here though. And frankly I am too old to buy studies from agenda driven groups from American universities. So no.

      • jonavark says:

        To be clear, I want to know how many women are applying and being turned away that are qualified for the job in VFX. I don’t give a crap about actors or directors. The notion that any white guy can just walk into those jobs is laughable anyway. While you’re at it you can provide the numbers of male applicants turned down for the jobs that are held largely by women in VFX. Producers, coordinators, etc. Always top heavy in favor of females anywhere I have worked.

      • Very Disappointed says:

        VFXsoldier,

        just to clarify:

        My intent is not to skip over what you said. I fallowed the thought process and disagreed with it. What you are saying is at a macro level, stereotyped interests drive careers…more women in makeup and clothing design because girls like to wear makeup and clothes….

        And I’m saying that same mentality is what causes (on a micro level) someone to attribute women’s skills as a professional to her gender stereotyped interests, rather than her years of study. When the comments are made, the extrapolation is that, you are good at “this” part of your job because (macro level) women like “this” thing.

        My point being….it feels ethically wrong to think that way….micro or macro…for men or for women.

        If on a micro level thinking that way causes a dismissal of a woman’s skills, what it is dismissing on a macro level when used to rationalize why women are more prevelant in areas like costume/makeup design rather than the other areas of content creation in entertainment.

      • Andreas Jablonka says:

        @disappointed
        you make micro sense….
        stereotypes have merrit. in this case more woman like fashion than guys. hence more woman working in that field. men like programming more than woman. hence more men in that field.
        i fail to see how this is not obvious??

        now do the woman not like programming (or vfx) because they are not encouraged? that you can take up with the world. not vfxsoldier.

        do guys get encouraged to become mechanics? no they love cars and do it. I think the feminist 3.0 movement needs to solve their problems by promoting in their own ranks not by chastising the male demographic from not going overboard to include every possible way to encourage woman to enter our industry.

        do you see guys campaigning that fashion does not do enough to encourage males to become designers? no. because if they want too they will do it. not expect woman to go out and beyond to drag them onto the runway (is this where designers work? i dont know ).

      • jonavark says:

        Well put, Andreas. You saved me the time. Encapsulating: Observations are not endorsements.

      • VFX Soldier says:

        @ Very Disappointed

        “And I’m saying that same mentality is what causes (on a micro level) someone to attribute women’s skills as a professional to her gender stereotyped interests, rather than her years of study.”

        I think that’s where you’re misunderstanding me:

        I never said talented females that have studied VFX should be working in industries that are traditionally dominated by women like cosmetics or fashion.

        If the VFX industry was turning away droves of female VFX applicants because it felt they should work in traditionally female dominated industries then that would be a major title IX violation and class action lawsuits would be in place.

        What I’ve said for a number of times is that simple there is a low number of female applicants because generally people at CHOOSING industries that support their interest and products like VFX, comic books, cosmetics, and fashion have generated cultural interest in certain gender demographics.

        Nobody is disregarding a female’s application because they believe she should be working in fashion or cosmetics. There are simple more females applying for certain industries, and more men applying for certain industries based on the products demographic popularity.

      • faulknermano says:

        @Andreas Jablonka: there are many aspects of this singular sexism issue, so you have to take care in picking which aspect of it you’re actually arguing about, that you don’t conflate it with other arguments (even made by the same people) in this thread.

        You are replying to Very Disappointed’s statement, and yet you totally missed her point. It is ‘dismissal of women’s skill’ that is specifically being talked about, and even more specific, this in context with those who are already in the industry.

        It is a ‘sexist mentality’ that’s specifically explained here: a sexist mentality that makes, for example, two equally competent programmers, one male, and the other female, unequal: where the male will be respected more than the female, possibly paid more, etc etc, for precisely the mentality that says ‘a woman is more likely not to be a programmer, generally-speaking, because her mind-biology works against her, thus it’s safe to say she’s an inferior programmer.’ It is not about whether a woman is encouraged to take up programming (or what have you). In this case the woman has already taken it up, but regardless of her skill, or perhaps superior skill, it is worth is attenuated in the workplace because of her gender.

        Stereotypes indeed have some merit, but insofar as it serves those having them. In this case, stereotypes have failed the individual. Stereotyping have failed lots of individuals with merit.

        That is the specific issue that you ought not mix with the other arguments in the thread, because that would be over-simplifying our realities.

      • Andreas Jablonka says:

        @faulknermano
        I can see that logic yes. But i havent really talked about the existence of this gender gap. it exists. so does the “floodworks”power woman still hold and use (by accident and on purpose). doe snot make woman a better or worse artist or programmer.

        I did comment on the entitlement many feel here for fixing the “ease of entry” into our industry. with less attempts made by less females, less workers will make it in and thereby showcasing the bad female to male ratio.

  15. rox says:

    you’ve just lost a longtime follower/admirer of your blog (and a female vfx artist/programmer to boot). surely many more will follow. so disappointing.

    i have so much more to say but really, i have shots to finish.

  16. faulknermano says:

    To say that the VFX industry is egalitarian, or even a meritocracy is, at best, meaningless romanticism. If your personal experience supports it, then I’m happy for you!: you don’t know what you don’t know. Unfortunately, there’s more evidence against it: you don’t even have to get into gender bias to see the inequality, nepotism, and discrimination in the industry.

    And I do observe that women are stereotyped and discriminated everywhere: there is sexism, in this industry and also in the next. What impresses me, however, are those women who do their jobs very well. I know of a female assistant producer who would have made a better director than the guy she was assisting. Of course, I’m thinking: “Why isn’t she a director?” (But why go into gender? Incompetence is gender-unspecific. I’m just as bothered by incompetent women as I am with incompetent men; an arrogant woman is the same as an arrogant man.)

    I grew up in a culture that generally respected women, so I don’t find any contradiction between female authority versus male pride. So I don’t think you can fix an industry/company from its cultural problems by superficial changes to that industry. No, I don’t believe this is not going to be solved by a band-aid solution like equalising male/female numbers to 50-50, or getting rid of ‘crass gynaecology jokes’. That will not improve female bias. It will not improve women’s view of themselves, when behind men’s eyes is some suppressed resentment. Until boys grow up seeing their men respecting their women, and in return, women respect the men for doing so, all you’re doing is playing Whac-A-Mole.

    • Jackadullboy says:

      “Until boys grow up seeing their men respecting their women, and in return, women respect the men for doing so”

      This is perhaps the most important point which is almost always ignored or overlooked. Both genders need to change their attitude about ‘both genders’ in this equation, if things are ever to move forward significantly.

    • pa says:

      the VFX is Whack-A-Mole against anyone who is slightly different in bhaviour or appearance

      it’s paranoid, abusive, full of nepotism and geared towards white American males who are in an LA based clique

      their goal is to push people out and down, not create

      there is no creativity and no profit

      the whole thing in EVERY WAY is an illusion

      in reality by working in it, you are supporting your own abuse

  17. info says:

    I agree with Rox. You lost another follower here. As someone fairly new to the industry I have experienced blatant racism and gender bias at firms by both men and women. Please be aware that everyone can participate in gender bias despite their gender. A few flaws in your argument: your statistics that the females in admin roles doesn’t mean that should compensate for the lack of female artists. The word “minority” is not interchangeable with “marginalized”, a minority can still navigate through communities and still hold privilege while marginalized individuals cannot. No one starts from the same starting point, and various programs are meant to help certain groups of people – think about the GI Bill only available to whites when it first commenced and the Homestead Act which allowed whites to grab land in the 1800s. As someone fairly young (and a career changer) I would like to add that this industry is the LEAST educated in history and culture. I have worked for the government, in education and with nonprofits and I have to say from my experiences in those sectors that I am able to hold a conversation with hundreds of people while, in VFX, animation and the entertainment industry in general I have a hard time having an adult conversation with anyone and surprised at the lack of maturity and sophisticated use of language that any of you can compose, which is why I am not at all surprised that you cannot come together as a sound collective to bargain well what you are worth.

    • Andreas Jablonka says:

      @info
      you are surprised that many are geeks with no social skills or maturity? many just sit in the dark rooms day in and out. your educational background should have prepared you for that.

    • jonavark says:

      “and sophisticated use of language that any of you can compose,”

      Bad attitude. Don’t be surprised of those lower life forms don’t meet your expectations.

      I have also worked for the government and dealt with educational institutions. Some of the most eloquent, educated people I have ever met are in VFX. I find your assertions to be elitist and unwarranted.

    • qpqp says:

      Nobody cares

  18. Hair td says:

    Can anyone tell me how many fake twitter followers vfxsoldier has? I had a quick look and it seems like he has at least 2,000 fake followers on his account. Is there a way to work out how many followers he bought?

  19. anon says:

    Maybe women are just smarter, and know to stay the hell away from this broken disaster of an industry?

  20. ExampleJohn says:

    I work for a small VFX place, and the female artist are constantly underpaid and overlook. Not by the female producer or the recruiters… But by the department heads. No surprise, they are all males!!

  21. sloore says:

    After some more thought, I just realized something even worse about this particular post.

    Mr. Lay considers himself an advocate for the rights of VFX artists and professionals. His stated goal is to improve the working conditions of the people in this business. Now, even assuming the argument is right that the lack of female participation in this business is due to a lack of interest on their part, that does not mean that there are no women in the industry. Right now there are women working as artists in the industry. They; like their male counterparts, are the exact people Dan claims to be advocating for, yet when the issue of unpleasant working conditions for them comes up, he dismisses it.

    So let me get this straight.

    When there are harsh conditions in the VFX industry that affects men(and women as well) he has a problem with it and wishes to see it resolved, but when it is a problem that is specific to women and not really for men, he is either skeptical that it exists or thinks that women need to “suck it up.” The same seems to be true of a significant portion of the people who post on this site who likewise have an interest in improving the working conditions for workers in the VFX industry.

    It’s bad enough when the industry has significant amounts de facto discrimination at the workplace, but now we see that the so-called advocates for “workers rights” in this industry seem to care little for the plight of certain workers simply because of their gender.

    Damn, I am really disgusted. To all the “sexism skeptics” here: Not only did you just prove that sexism is alive and well in this business, you just made yourselves look really bad too.

    You also just showed why you are a failure as a leader for this movement. Even assuming that all you say is true on this issue, you gave up the golden opportunity of making common cause with a potential ally and gaining more visibility for your own cause. Not only that, but you’ve done a bang up job on alienating your own support base, fracturing it and doing significant damage.

    • Andreas Jablonka says:

      nobody cares what they look like on here

      where is vfxSoldierGirl? Do as much as Daniel did and people, sorry woman, will follow you. I have not seen any females stand up for our movement with the exception of Mariana Acuna. why is that?
      to be clear i se many female supporters. often with their children in tow to help support the cause for better working conditions.

      if the girls here would make as much a wave about the good for all artists as they do about female artists rights we would all profit from it.

      • sloore says:

        “nobody cares what they look like on here”

        They should. Perhaps not how they look individually, but certainly as a group. Part of the reason for why this website exists is to bring awareness about working conditions in this business and get people other than VFX artists to give a crap. But if it looks like most VFX artists are little more than a bunch of misogynistic neckbeards, then why should anybody give a crap?

        I made the decision to stop working at VFX studios and be my own boss about two years ago. A big reason was because I saw where things were going and knew that working at a VFX studio was probably going to be like chaining myself to a sinking ship. I also didn’t like the childish behavior out of a lot of guys, including the sexism.

        It’s had its ups and downs, but when I see stuff like what I’m seeing in this, it sure as hell makes me feel better about my decision.

  22. Frank N. Stein says:

    Yes, there are guys that are simply clueless as to how to behave around women. VFX tends to attract a fair amount of geeky man-boys with no social skills, or even just arrogant assholes. Still, they are the minority and there are plenty of gentlemen as well.

    It is true that women are less likely to be attracted to jobs such as VFX and games for a profession, by a large margin. Hence the gender disparity.

    From what I have observed, skill set and experience being equal between a man or woman applicant: the woman will get hired for the gig. If for no other reason than there are already too many guys in the VFX workforce!

    I can’t comment on the pay issue, but I will say I know many women that have a high rate, and get it.

    If you think you are being discriminated against for being a woman, or black, or gay or whatever… wait until you get older and find out the category that hits everyone far, far worse. It really sucks to be an older VFX artist, no matter how skilled you are.

    • vfx says:

      it’s a sick industry in every way

      people defend power not truth

      the people in it are often fake, nasty and backstabbing

      the whole industry feels like a MASSIVE SCAM

      the supervisors lie and blacklists to maintain their own power not improve the system

      all the money goes to banks while the vfx artists are sucked into debt and hyper-competitive behaviours

      they all think they are going to be superstars or collect awards (not money)

      the fact is it’s all a huge deception that rewards a few with untold riches and rewards the majority with debt and failure

  23. roger moore says:

    bla bla bla…

  24. Sigh says:

    Opting against a long reply, just telling you you’ve lost another long-time supporter/reader over this article and your immature twitter pout-fest that preceded it.

    The sooner you stop trying to be the arbiter of all things VFX, the better the rest of us will be for it.

  25. womenlikeorganics says:

    On my way out, I tripped on the heaps of middle fingers that were laid to rest on the tombstone that is soldierpress. Have fun, you four in the room, denying rampant sexism and staying relevant in vfx.

    • fitzfilmfx says:

      This seems like an overreaction to this article. Could it really be that women just are not as interested in the field of VFX? It certainly doesn’t seem to be appealing to most women. Every place I’ve worked, my boss has been a woman, but it’s true, it’s a rare find to see women working on the actual VFX. Other industries are completely dominated by woman. 92% of registered nurses are women, 81.9% of grade school teachers. Psychologists, Event Planners, Tax Examiners. I suppose you could say our society has carved out these roles for women, but is there ever a point where we just say “The majority of people that enjoy are women.” It doesn’t seem like we’re allowed to say that. Maybe as time marches forward women and men will be equally interested in all fields?

      • parlance1 says:

        “Could it really be that women just are not as interested in the field of VFX?”

        No. Just no. I don’t even understand how anyone could rationalize that statement as being at all sensible. I volunteer at a place that’s half and half girls and boys interested in animation and VFX. The problem isn’t lack of interest in the industry. The problem is the lack of interest in drawing the talent and nurturing them when they come.

      • Brandon Benson says:

        Nurturing them??

    • . says:

      why bother to comment then ?

  26. Having a gender is not qualification enough to talk constructively about gender issues. Unfortunately there is no good way to explain to you exactly how inept your article is. Every paragraph shows how utterly incapable you are of even understanding the issue. You just have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

    “…why then would a large number of females involved in the crewing process effectively discriminate against other women?”

    Are you joking? Gender inequality isn’t something that men do to women! It’s a social structure that is perpetuated by people of all genders. If you are the victim of an injustice, it is not invalidated by the fact that the perpetrator has the same sex as you.

    You have lost a great many readers because of this uninformed drivel. Please do not ever write about the topic again. Do not try to defend yourself, or even clarify your statements. You are not capable of rectifying this, and will only make a bigger fool of yourself if you try. Just keep quiet about it from now on. Seriously.

    • Factoid says:

      I wish he would no longer comment on anything VFX as he had not worked in VFX for sometime so should just move on. But fame seekers always look at trying to up themselves so I expect many more years of his drivel.

      • Jackadullboy says:

        “Drivel”? Really? That seems a little unfair.. Soldier has posted plenty of very poignant ( not to mention prescient) articles, and was identifying fundamental problems in our industry long before most of us began smelling the coffee.

        Even if you don’t agree with his position on this or that specific point, only an fool would deny that he’s been a major player in encouraging and creative debate about our industry, and has attempted to take real steps to change things where most are content to bitch, complain, and finger-point.

        That’s got to be worthy of applause in my view.

      • VFX Soldier says:

        Its just cognitive dissonance.

        Sent from my iPhone

        >

      • . says:

        there is nobody famous in vfx,

        vfx is used by famous people to bolster their image and coffers

        the film industry does not want any famous vfx artists

        it’s a conspiracy of suppression

    • Jackadullboy says:

      “You have lost a great many readers because of this uninformed drivel. Please do not ever write about the topic again. Do not try to defend yourself, or even clarify your statements. You are not capable of rectifying this, and will only make a bigger fool of yourself if you try. Just keep quiet about it from now on. Seriously.”

      While I absolutely agree that sexism is a problem in our and other tech industries, the above is the kind of intolerant rhetoric that gives third-wave feminism a bad name.

      This is a blog.. The author is entitled to air his views. If you don’t like it, don’t read it, and go somewhere else. Otherwise, read it, be suitably offended, and state you case. Do not “mansplain” to the author what they are or are not entitled to express.

      • amal says:

        “Please do not ever write about the topic again. ”

        Who are you to tell anyone what to write about ?

        ………..get a grip on your lack of self importance……….

        NOBODY CARES.

        That comment is TYPICAL of the repressive ignorant VFX politics that needs to end before the real industry can even begin.

        People are entitled to write about whatever they want to.

        My contention is with vfx producers who play deliberately evil tricks and blacklist people for little or no reason, simply for amusement, because they don’t have the talent or intelligence to do anything else…….and people who are no progressing the industry in any way.

      • Jackadullboy says:

        Just to be clear, I was quoting Andreas karlsson’s post above…!

  27. sjon says:

    on the upside: at least now i know what drivel means

  28. aprfv says:

    A lot of the women at WETA supported the porn mailing list.

    It was seen as funny stress relief for Friday beer time.

    NZ doesn’t have the same uptight sexist attitudes as LA or California where the slightest romantic gesture or sexual mention can get interpreted as sexual harassment etc….

    It’s more “laddish” like the UK in NZ.

    • aprfv says:

      how many women have won the vfx academy award ?

      how many minorities ?

      vfx industry is mainly a repressive white male clique

  29. Some Dude says:

    As someone who is a Male artist at one of the big 6 facilities, who has also recently graduated from a visual effects based uni program, I am super disappointed at your reaction to this article.

    In Uni, more then 1/3 of the students in our FX program were women, and more than half of the students in the Anim program were also women. The largest issue that I’ve seen is that, due to the gender bias in this industry, women who have equally (if not greater) than capable skills for artist positions are almost always shuffled into production or PA roles out of school. Then it becomes of case of ‘they have no industry artist experience, lets keep promoting them through the production/management side of things.

    Getting hired as a student is literally a 100% stroke of luck to begin with, because very few studios want to take the chance on someone lacking experience. Add to that the bais in almost every recruiters mind that ‘women work in production’ and you have runners turning into PA’s and not artists. You have women with multiple artist internships under the belt being told that ‘we only have PA positions open’ in the same week that men with less experience are being offered Jr. Artist roles.

    I get that you too were a minority, congrats for making it, that is really something to be proud of. That being said, don’t ever slight the fact at hand, which is the extreme bais against women in STEM fields exist because of the exact views you presented as your opinion above.

    • jonavark says:

      Opinion? I believe he was asking a question. So.. didn’t see much opinion in the post.

      How many of those female students graduated, then applied for positions they were qualified for and were turned down because they were women? How many took PA jobs just to get their feet in the door?

      With all due respect, you’re offering quite a bit of opinion in your post as well.

  30. Lonely says:

    Yawn, i see this blog is still up….thought this Daniel chap had quit the industry.

  31. Cowards says:

    In the anal’s of history we can look back at this blog as a document that painted a very clear picture of what the vfx culture was all about. It will clearly show that so many thought they were smarter than the other guy, smarter than the trends. they thought that they had all the answers, they thought if I only start an anonymous thread where I can lay out all my ideas, the dummies will listen and something will be done.
    Yes, the coming of age of the second or third generation of “tech” centric artist, lost complete sight of the tangible, collaboration, and social morays.
    It would seem, between the years 2008-2014, the wave of vfx/digital artist where profoundly lacking in one very important concept that could have saved their professions and possibly the industry, reciprocity.
    One could also argue that the massively tech centric educations, and the overabundance of workers who were born in to the 35% tax bracket or so, set the stage for a work force that was anti union, in addition to already having a world view that was self centered.
    Now, there is nothing you can do, nothing. Why nothing? Cause there aren’t enough people to get up off their self righteous ass and actually do something besides post something on facebook.

    You get what you deserve.

    • anon says:

      You mean “annals” ?

      ……the other option is probably for the caveman/cavewoman list.

      I agree with the rest of this post BTW.

      • Cowards says:

        I wrote that on purpose. anal’s, as is ass, as in tongue and cheek, ok, maybe not the last part. I think your correction is hilarious btw. It’s so illustrates what I was speaking about. You failed to see the humor or satire and went right to that “I’m smarter than you” place. Well done.

      • Jackadullboy says:

        … Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones…

    • Bob (another one) says:

      I, too, agree with most of this post.

      The parts I don’t agree with are “Morays,” which would be several eels (you want “Social mores”), and the spurious “Where” that should have been “Were.”

      Also, addressing the real subject matter: it isn’t only that there aren’t enough people who will get up and do something. It’s much worse than that; it’s that when somebody *does* stand up to try to do something, then plenty of these imbeciles are right there ready to shout down and attack that person. The very nicest thing that can be said about their behavior is that it’s incredibly short sighted and motivated by a very pure strain of stupidity.

      One day, maybe in ten years’ time, these people are going to look back at this moment in time and they’re going to weep with bitter regret for all of the things that they could have fixed, for all of the small actions that they could have taken if not for their own thoughtlessness. “Why didn’t I do something?” they’ll wail to themselves.

      And their only answer will be a half imagined voice, like a tiny whisper on the wind, and it will laugh, and then it will say to them exactly what the VFX business and the studios have been saying to them for all these years… “Fuck off.”

      • Jackadullboy says:

        When you consider the far greater challenges of dealing with climate change and other large existential threats, these quirks of human psychology seem all the more depressing.

      • Cowards says:

        Ah yes, you too fell right in to that box of
        I’m smarter than you, with the Morays correction.. Nicely done, congratulations!

      • Jackadullboy says:

        Stones.. Glass houses…

      • Bob (another one) says:

        Look, Cowards. Here’s an Uncle Bob’s Life Lesson (TM) for you. And it’s gratis. When somebody corrects a funny mistake you’ve made with gentle, mocking humor, the correct response is to laugh along and say “Yes, right. I won’t do that one again.”

        There’s a hundred ways you could have responded that would have made you look like an adult instead of a petulant child, from “Morays! Hah! Sorry…” to “Hey! English is my second language. Be nice!”

        But no. Catastrophically oblivious to tone, you scan what’s written and then respond as if somebody has just insulted your mother.

        And we were agreeing with you!

        You might be generally angry, and if you’re in VFX you have every right to be, but standing on your desk and shouting things that make everybody within earshot think you’re probably a bit of a dick isn’t really any kind of solution, is it?

      • me says:

        bob, you’re right.

      • Cowards says:

        Thanks again everyone for illustrating my point so clearly. Keep sitting behind your computers and searching threads to show just how smart you are. Well done! Your own lack of self reflection and narcissism, is what compels you to respond in the manners that you have. This general attitude is a pervasive cancer that has brought your industry to its knees. It’s cost you your job, if not now, very soon to be sure.
        @Bob, you in particular are a shining example. You read my comments and in some manner took them personally. I’ve made an observation that no one has yet to disagree with, or offer any other compelling reasons on how to save the industry. The evidence is very clear that your “the artist” failure to have a backbone and or a sense of community is ultimately the ONLY reason the biz is DEAD!

        The choice is then, what can YOU do about it? Your choice is to lash out and behave in the manner that is THE problem. So, who’s the dick?

        The truth hurts sometimes, and when it hits home it hurts even more. For me? I saw this train coming YEARS ago, not because of the studios, or subsidies, or producers, or overtime, but because of assholes like you @Bob that can’t see beyond their own nose.

        Congrats.

      • Bob (another one) says:

        Well, I’m going to go with the most optimistic interpretation of this and assume that English really is your second language, Cowards. (Admittedly, I’m basing this on flimsy evidence: the general lack of flow in your usage and your occasional choice of completely the wrong word, such as “…Reasons…” above. I could be wrong.)

        You’ve misunderstood everything that everybody has said in this short thread. Please go over it again.

      • Cowards says:

        Poor @Bob, you just can’t leave it alone huh? Insult me all you want, you’ll still be a delusional, self centered know it all. Maybe you have a future as an English teacher? Nah, that would require helping others, OH!! Wait, I got it. A internet movie critic!! Perfect! You can sit home all day and write about how dumb people are. Damn, you have a very bright future.

        Good luck!

      • Jackadullboy says:

        Well, I guess we can simply wrap this thread up by saying I’m smarter than everyone else in the room. There.. Done!

      • Cowards says:

        “Stones.. Glass houses..”

        That already cemented your position in the club of ” I’m smarter than you”. Writing witty euphemisms, or quotes demonstrating your pseudo intellectual status, is par for the course in the world of digital artists.

        Yet again and example of how the spineless culture of the modern digital fx artist allowed the industry to crumble.

        90%, no 95% of digital artist are the type that will spew confrontational dialogue all over email threads like “life”, but would never in a moment leave the comfort of their computer screen to actually look someone in the eye as say the same things.

        They are also the type that would have email threads like “porn”, but come Friday night, they would rather play some LAN game than actually attempt to meet a woman and enjoy real life. That would be to risky, you may get rejected.

        This all hitting a little to close the home boys?

        Lets have another game of hacky sack in the parking lot! Oh wait, no, how about sunday bbq with all the same people we see 20 hours a day? Or or… dinner at our desk! Hey, the producer bought pizza! This kicks ass… “Who’ that asshole going home at 8pm ?” OH, he’s got a family ( said with sarcasm ) fuck that dude, he’s not a team player.. ”
        “Did you hear that guy doesn’t even know MAYA?” He’s a prisms guy!” WTF is that?” He makes how much?” 15 years in CG?” Fuck that.. I know MAYA and I kick this dudes ass!

        Oh yes, I could write a book.. Honestly, the end of the digital fx biz as we know it, is a good thing.. it really is.

        Jackadullboy says:
        February 19, 2015 at 1:08 pm

        Well, I guess we can simply wrap this thread up by saying I’m smarter than everyone else in the room. There.. Done!

  32. Bob (another one) says:

    Here you go, everyone:
    http://kotaku.com/the-pizza-party-where-everyone-got-fired-1685455125
    It isn’t VFX, it’s the games industry, but take a look, see if you can find any similarities. The last of the stories is the most depressing of them.

    And to cap this particular topic, the real reason women are under represented in both VFX and games is that women -GENERALLY SPEAKING- are very seldom as single mindedly obsessed with nerdish, cultish, mindlessly “cool” and above all else childish geek subjects as men are.

    What this moronic man-child nerd shit gives employers is a workforce that can be abused and overworked just about until they die, because they’re doing something “cool” that is their “dream,” and so they’ll work any hours, without overtime pay, without health insurance, without a decent amount of vacation time, without, fundamentally, many things that workers in a rich, stable democracy should expect as their right.

    Employers won’t hire females because they think they can’t get away with treating them like idiot slaves.

    And to whoever it was upthread that was of the opinion that keeping women out of VFX was about teh mens hoarding all the wonderfully creative jobs… honestly, I know you don’t mean to be, but you’re utterly deluded.

    There’s not the tiniest shred of creativity left in VFX work. Nothing. The whole thing has now been boiled down to a Henry Ford style production (pipe)line. Fifteen to twenty years ago, nothing had been done and every new set of VFX for every new movie required that things be invented in order to simply get the work done. That fifteen years of continual innovation means that now the process is all but done. VFX workers these days are almost always just grunts pushing the buttons in the right order. You’re lucky if you aren’t doing that.

    • me says:

      “You’re lucky if you aren’t doing that.” I think so.

    • Frank N. Stein says:

      Excellent Bob. This perfectly sums up the whole modern VFX/game/animation industry. We like to call ourselves “artists” in this business, but it is really more craft than art. Each crew member is really just a tiny gear in an assembly line machine. Most people that get into this industry figure it out eventually, but find it difficult to find a way out.

      I love the general description of the “type” of person who enters the industry for the “cool” job. So true. The job may seem cool at first, but is rife with abuse and not cool at all.

    • jonavark says:

      “nothing had been done and every new set of VFX for every new movie required that things be invented in order to simply get the work done.”

      Those were awesome times. You could create your own edge. But people were still laid off between shows and a lot of things were much the same as they are today, it is just spread out across more territory.

      I made the point that every new iteration of software allows less capable people to run it for less pay. That’s where we are now, save for the few at the top who actually get the creative tasks.

    • anon says:

      I hate free pizza and free beer by VFX companies.

      It’s always cheap and always seems like a bribe…….. like a rapist offering their victims lubricant or a bank robber offering the employees a tip before they leave.

      • me says:

        “I hate free pizza and free beer by VFX companies.” LOL, don’t worry, the workers are paying for these but in a hidden way. instead of getting proper remuneration, they get less and… free pizza!

  33. Talkies says:

    Interesting debate. I tend to be a sensitive guy to womens’ rights, but you have to call this spade. The problem is these days is misinfo is spread like wildfire. So in this case, I agree with the post. It’s unfair to attack innocent men for things they haven’t done. And for praising women who haven’t done. Sure there are women on here that are indeed working. They did what they had to get hired. They worked hard and slaved like everyone else. Those women have my respect. I mean no disrespect to women here at all.

    I find it very important to both champion and challenge movements that are racial or gender in nature. Do any of the women out there have thoughts on my right to challenge movements at times?

    For example, I might definitely campaign for more women. At the same time I would take the position of encouraging them to apply and getting better at what they do. Rather than artificial insemination of talent. Thoughts?

    • Talkies says:

      Cont’d…I would also start at the school level, by challenging the females there and say are you ready? Do you have what it takes as a woman? For example a black person has to work 2x as hard to break into a place. But that’s what it takes. Definitely should look at the institutions, but also be well rounded and look at the individuals applying and up those numbers without hurting innocent men who had nothing to do with other shop’s practices.
      Eh?

      Let’s go females. This is your time to speak on this! Educate US men!

  34. Talkies says:

    On another note…I see a lot of people posting that “this industry…is shit”.

    While I agree, lets not forget this industry is run by people. The “industry” itself, is an innocent child! It’s actually an awesome “industry”!

    As many are jaded for good reason…

    Lest we not forgot. It’s fun to make stuff.

    • anon says:

      spare us “the Kool Aid is tasty” talk, Mr Jones

    • kj says:

      CG *can* be profitable when it’s not ran by parasites and gossiping failing abusers………..claim you life back, claim your creativity back

      “You have many contacts
      Among the lumberjacks
      To get you facts
      When someone attacks your imagination
      But nobody has any respect
      Anyway they already expect you
      To just give a check
      To tax-deductible charity organizations

      Because something is happening here
      But you don’t know what it is
      Do you, Mister Jones?”

    • me says:

      “Lest we not forgot. It’s fun to make stuff.” – No, It’s not any more!

    • kj says:

      the industry is not a child

      humans are children

      vfx is not human, it’s an economic system, fueled by greed and debt, and it’s attractive, controlling and destructive

      it looks real, but it’s an illusion……..and the illusion is so cool and amazing……..it distracts.pull money sucks people in

      to focus on the reality of vfx just talk about the financial system and ignore the product

      vfx artists are controlled by the numbers and manipulation of those numbers

      that is what people are really talking about here, not imagery or the joy of creativity

  35. anon says:

    Oscar Nominees Lunch 2015

    with poops instead of men from buzzfeed:

    FORTUNE MAGAZINE REPORT

    “Both corporate America’s and the Oscars’ boardrooms have struggled to be inclusive. They have a lot of work to do, but just the conversation is a step.

    The absence of diversity in the pool of Oscar nominees this year has cast a harsh glare on the old boys’ network—a homogeneous group similar to the one that fills the top ranks of corporate America.

    Hollywood’s lack of diversity grabbed the spotlight after the Civil Rights drama “Selma” received no Oscar nominations for its director, Ava DuVernay, or its star, David Oyelowo. That fueled a storm of critics on social media who, with hash tags like #OscarsSoWhite, said ignoring the well-received film reflected racial bias—or, at minimum, lack of understanding that the film marks a key event in the civil rights movement.

    In the Oscars’ prestigious category of acting, the nominees are all white and no women are named in the coveted directing or writing categories. The seemingly biased judging has been blamed on the Oscar judging board’s composition, which is estimated to be 93% male.”

    http://fortune.com/2015/02/13/oscar-judges-diversity-academy-awards/

    “Hollywood Diversity Report 2014”
    http://www.bunchecenter.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2014-Hollywood-Diversity-Report-2-12-14.pdf

    “Oscars 2015, où sont les femmes?”
    http://www.gala.fr/l_actu/news_de_stars/oscars_2015_ou_sont_les_femmes_335155

    TRANSLATED
    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gala.fr%2Fl_actu%2Fnews_de_stars%2Foscars_2015_ou_sont_les_femmes_335155&edit-text=

  36. anon says:

    two germane articles from TELEGRAPH

    “And the Oscar winner is… a white, middle-aged man”

    “The voting members of the Academy, who select the nominated artists, are 94 per cent white, 77 per cent male and have a median age of 62. Those who have been previously nominated for an Oscar are able to vote for the following year’s awards.

    While many laid the blame for the lack of representation with the Academy, the nominations show that there is far wider gender inequality in the film industry.
    A recent study released by Center for the Study of Women in Television and Film at San Diego State University showed that only 7 per cent of directors on the 250 top grossing films were women, a two per cent drop over the last 17 years.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/oscars/11348193/And-the-Oscars-winner-is…-a-white-middle-aged-man.html

    “Women Marginalized in film crews”

    “Follows found that on average, less than a quarter – 23 per cent – of the crewmembers were women. In 1994, 22.7 per cent of crewmembers were female, which dropped to 21.9 per cent in 2013. The findings match those about gender balance in the industry elsewhere. 2012 saw the smallest number of speaking roles for women for five years. Of the top British films between 2001 and 2012, just one was directed by a woman.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/10985446/Women-marginalised-within-film-crews.html

    • jonavark says:

      a steamy load of BS.

    • Bob (another one) says:

      Anon, let me begin by stating that I’m not arguing that there’s no sexism in the movie biz. There plainly is. Also, allow me to be clear that I’m not arguing that there’s no sexism in the VFX biz. There is sexism in the VFX biz and I have witnessed it many times. Finally, let me make it plain that I condemn mindless sexism.

      With that said, why do you keep posting items about sexism in the Hollywood movie biz? Do you understand that the ecosystem of the Hollywood movie biz has nothing whatsoever to do with the entirely separate ecosystem of the VFX biz? Really, on all the evidence, the Hollywood movie biz actually dislikes and resents the VFX biz.

      Those people don’t control anything about who is hired and fired in VFX. The VFX biz does that itself. They don’t control how the VFX are done. All they do is ask for bids and then pay (badly) for the work to be done.

      If you’re trying to illustrate that sexism is a general thing that’s out there, well fine, but it looks more like you’re specifically linking to “Hollywood” sexism because, you know, it all the exact same thing and we’re Hollywood and filmmaking and those guys are sexist and… and…

      You might as well be posting articles about Hollywood Oscars and sexism to say that bakers are horribly sexist because craft services makes sandwiches out of bread and all the movie directors are men and… and…

      Again, to be clear, there is sexism in VFX and it’s a bad thing, but none of those articles are in any way relevant to VFX except the the very broadest of terms, which kind of makes them pointless in a discussion about sexism in VFX.

      • Talkies says:

        Hollywood isn’t sexist. That’s too narrow and conveinent a description.

        Instead. It’s a power structure period. It doesn’t give a shit what color or gender you are. If you don’t have the power…you ain’t getting in or surviving.

      • Bob (another one) says:

        “Sexism” is a label applied to observed events occurring in the real world that conform to an accepted definition of what “Sexism” is.

        Hollywood behaves in ways that conform to the accepted definition of sexism.

        Therefore Hollywood is sexist. QED.

        Whether the observed sexist behavior is caused by “A power structure” is completely irrelevant to the question of whether it’s sexist behavior.

      • Talkies says:

        What about beta males. They get no love dawg? Bwahahahalaoalaoalaoalaoalolaol

      • jonavark says:

        ““Sexism” is a label applied to observed events occurring in the real world that conform to an accepted definition of what “Sexism” is.”

        Circular logic fail.

      • Bob (another one) says:

        It isn’t circular logic. It’s redundant. In this case, though, it really *is* an intentional redundancy. The redundancy was for effect. If it doesn’t read like that, then that’s my fault. It says (in a way that’s tailored for the context of replying to Talkies’s suggestion that sexism isn’t sexism if it’s caused by… reasons) that sexism is anything that matches sexism as it’s defined by common agreement. Not whatever he wants to define it as.

        Honestly, try substituting a different noun:
        “Dog” is a label applied to an animal that conforms to what the accepted definition of a “Dog” is.
        It’s a redundancy, it doesn’t mean anything except “Dog is dog.” It’s wordy, and it’s being too clever for its own good and therefore failing, but it doesn’t rely on itself for its meaning.

      • Talkies says:

        Bob, define what sexism is. Google the definition.

        To me and clearly by definition, it’s intentional and malicious motivation to oppress a gender.

        Which is how I feel as a beta white male. Feminists want me to feel like a piece of shit that doesn’t deserve my place.

        My accomplishments are discounted and I’m told I’m nothing but a jock. Even though I’m not a jock. Nor do I ever hang out with anyone that hires me.

        It could be argued that I’m less likely to get a job if a girl is hotter than me.

        I have some remnant liberal views. But really you have to question this kind of simple, liberal bullshit. There may be a lack of females directing. But over simplifying that it’s a malicious attack against a gender is likely bullshit.

        Simpleton liberals are weasels that will flatly stab you in the back in a second, in order to make their mark politically. And that’s exactly what is happening here. It doesn’t matter what your innocence is to a simpleton liberal. They will just start marching around and ignoring any sort of rationalization that things may be a mix of many individual stories.

        I’m open to how I could be wrong.

      • wpw says:

        “Simpleton liberals are weasels”

        hasn’t it been stated that anyone using the word liberal in the pejorative, forfeit’s the debate as a unwritten addendum to Godwin’s law ?

        FYI Europe and the US are founded on LIBERAL POLICIES.

        “Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.”
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

        remember this from 1776 ?
        “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal”

        Places that dislike liberals: Saudi Arabia, North Korea, UAE, ISIS, Taliban etc….

      • Talkies says:

        Heheh. Your obfuscation skills are solid! Lets not get tangled up in complexity.

        So, okay to clarify: we are talking about extremes of liberalism here. I’m venting about purist/extremist liberals. They can be unreasonable, just like the extreme right.

        I’m part liberal myself, for sure! Who said I wasn’t?

        We are discussing how people use agendas to falsify situations so that people can ‘get ahead’. But only who they want to get ahead. It makes them angry to see a male of any color for that matter.

        There are reasonable people and then there are people who create a lot of hysteria in order to build their brand online. Publicly. They do little off-line if anything.

        Instead of actually finding constructive ways, they destroy communication, loot, etc.

        I DO see the point in needing change if women would like to break in more.

        Blaming and discounting innocent white males for the entire situation is absurd! This approach has to be ended immediately.

      • Jackadullboy says:

        “Extreme Liberalism”… Well, there’s something to keep us all up at night!

      • Talkies says:

        Jack. I like your sense of humor. Not sure if you get it. It’s not actually a funny thing when people get slandered. The link I posted did not actually show a very nasty exchange where they shit all over the free efforts of Ash Thorpe publicly. Turning him into a monster. Simply because he has his Prologue buddies on his own self-funded podcast.

        Yes I do fear them.😀

      • Jackadullboy says:

        Sorry Talkie, so offense intended. I was just tickled by the concept. I think the problem here is that people use a label like ‘liberal’, ‘conservative’, ‘libertarian’ or whatever and throw them into a conversation without really agreeing on definition, but knowing all the same that they are ‘for’ one and ‘against’ the other.

        Personally I’m for critical thinking without a political slant. Although I’d define myself as broadly liberal, the uncritical ends of liberalism and conservatism could both do with a heavy dose of the latter at times. Sometimes it’s too easy to associate with people and information that confirm our pre-existing stance as a means of avoiding too much cognitive processing..

  37. BasementTracer says:

    WHAT ARE YOU GUYS DOING COMMENTING HERE. WE SHOULD ALL BE TRACING MATTES

  38. Lovely Tool says:

    There’s definitely value in exploring what this all means. But the problem with all this gender crying is that though many situations are white male clubs, this is an oversimplification. There are plenty of white beta males that do not fit into the club either.

    I’m pretty convinced most of the guys blagging on social media are campaigning to get a blow job. Though a few might be well intentioned. Sorry if this seems harsh, but I’ve been seeing and hearing a lot of oversimplifications regarding “gender bias”.

    • Lovely Tool says:

      And there are plenty of indians, asians, etc that don’t fit into those clicks. It’s a tough issue and I wish people would use less of a heavy hand in explaining it.

  39. Indra Blade says:

    Sigh.

    Actually as usual with these feminist new world order Wormtongueians engaging in Orwellian doublethink it’s completely the opposite case.

    Women actually get hired OVER men because there’s a misguided notion that we need gender balance. I’ve noticed female animators tend to be attractive, which is probably the only aspect that may reflect prejudice in hiring. I’ve seen many female animators hired with less talent than other men that didn’t get the job.

    Now let’s discuss why there’s this feminist nonsense permeating all aspects of society at the moment.

    One reason that the globalist elite (comprised of the central banking oligarchy that controls Western governments, Hollywood and the media) have been pushing feminism is because men are the biggest threat to their control of the populations. In every takeover or suppression of an enemy throughout history the men were taken out first. Men are more likely to view totalitarian authority as an alpha male threat whereas women are more likely to view it as a protector (related to women liking the ‘bad boys’). Men are thus more likely to challenge authority and are physically more dangerous.

    Globalist inspired feminism is also a lot about societal divide and conquer. They need to destroy the social fabric to make it harder for familial relationships to form particularly between men and women as families provide cohesion and resistance against tyranny. So pushing women to abandon traditional nurturing female traits and to pursue male qualities creates friction as men have evolved to protect and compliment women not compete with them. Relationships have become harder to form between men and women, divorce is at an all time high, marriage at an all time low as women abandon their biological natures in favour of pursuing masculine traits, ending up with internal conflict and they are often unhappy.

    Another key aspect stemming from the destruction of the family and the forcing of women into the workplace via social feminist propaganda and economic manipulation is that children become raised by the State. They can get force fed constant establishment propaganda throughout their lives with a heavily reduced parental influence. This is not say women shouldn’t have careers but they feel pressured to put work before raising kids and with the engineered credit crisis they often don’t have a choice.

    Women complain about the low numbers of women at the top end of the intellectual professions such as Science, maths, engineering, Visual Effects etc but refuse to see the real reason. They’re not good enough.

    The IQ distributions in all major IQ tests are markedly different between men and women, on average men and women are roughly equal but women’s IQs are more grouped around the middle whereas men’s are more spread across the spectrum, meaning there are more stupid men than women but a lot more highly intelligent men than women.
    This is because the bigger the difference between men the easier it is for women to select the smartest mates and the best selected from an evenly spread group is going to be much more intelligent than the best selected from an average group thus humanity’s intellectual evolution advances more rapidly via natural selection.
    With greater variety amongst the males, natural selection has more to work with.

    So to sum up, at the heart of feminism lies deception. Feminism was created by the power elite as a communist tool (modelled off Stalinesque Russian female empowerment techniques) to make society more divided, more matriarchal and thus more controllable.

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