This is one of those “me thinking aloud” posts:
Former ILM General Manager and Digital Domain Founder Scott Ross wrote a post that hastily concludes:
The first step in executing the above is the formation of an International Trade Association. And so here we are again, full cycle yet 20 plus years later. Let’s hope that the powers that be are less paranoid today than back in the 80′s. The time has come to organize.
While I’m no lawyer, the studios (and or non-members) will probably break the trade association by arguing that the facilities are inhibiting competition:
The Court held that “no elaborate industry analysis is required to demonstrate the anticompetitive character of such an agreement”, and that “the Rule of Reason does not support a defense based on the assumption that competition itself is unreasonable”.
In other words, the studios will argue that such an association is unjust because it was formed specifically to stifle competition through rules that prevent underbidding or adjust prices on consumers (Studios in this case) or employees (See ILM/Pixar Poachgate).
However, it is perfectly legal and constitutional for a group of consumers or workers to form organizations that ensure business or price standards: A union.
So what should Scott Ross do?
Well you’ll probably laugh but I actually think he should form his own separate labor organization. As ridiculous as that sounds, it actually is a more feasible path to attaining his goal.
He could hire a lawyer, draft a proposal of how professionals who join this new labor organization will only work on projects on a “cost plus” contract which will eliminate bid contracts. Let’s also assume he skips all the goodies for the employees (i.e. portable health insurance and retirement, enforcement of labor law. ) for the sake of argument. After reaching a majority of rep cards signed he essentially has the right to walk into a facility to basically bargain and implement his plan for the VFX industry.
Sound ridiculous? As I’ve said before I’ve always found it odd that VFX professionals have supported Scott Ross, an individual with the view that their jobs will all go to India and China. However, isn’t it a bit of a stretch to believe big VFX facilities are going to join Scott Ross’s trade organization? Has any facility agreed to join or was Mr. Ross violating the eleventh commandment?
Soldier On.
VFX Soldier 
Just checking but we are talking about the same guy who tried desperately to stop his staff from unionizing when they all yelled “Union!” in the screening room at DD when they fired a lot of them after Titanic.
I don’t think Scott is a bad guy. But I know that DD was NOT the ideal labor place under Scott. People seem to demonize DD now, at least now they do things like benefits and competitive rates which the old DD did not. There may even be a time when the old DD got in trouble for not paying OT. Look into it.
I am happy that Scott wants to champion a cause, but I urge an industry hungry for change, to see who is offering them a menu, and look at what sort of restaurant he used to run.
Also look at what he has done since he sold DD. Maybe this is just a way to be relevant in industry. If he is such an amazing guy in the industry, why has no one wanted to work work with him since? Is it because he cares to much about his employees?
I like what you guys are trying to do, and again… I don’t think Scott is a bad guy, fun guy, loves to party, Halloween parties were great!… But before making heroes,….
Just so you know… I want to be proven wrong. So please do so.
Agreed. Scott deflected most offers to start from the ground floor and get something going. Kind of hard to figure him out at first until I read most of his stuff online. I was also wondering if he was just looking for something to do and an income stream, after repeated attempts to help him get something started. At this point, I am not interested in anything he does.
quid pro quo jonavark, quid pro quo.
nice try vfxaveragedude…
But I don’t recall that I ” tried desperately to stop his staff from unionizing when they all yelled “Union!” in the screening room at DD..” In fact, an owner of a company, by law, cannot stop a company from organizing. If the employees of DD wanted to join a Union all they had to do was sign cards and have an election… which they didn’t.
I actually am not looking to head up a Trade Association.
What I am trying to do is add my insight into what I think the industry needs. There are a few folks like skaplan, a major supporter of unions, that I admire but frankly do not believe that a Union solves the problems of the VFX industry. Maybe after a Trade Association is in place and after VFX facilities are making a profit, then, a Union could be sustainable.
I’m also not looking to be a hero…. I gave that up years ago when I saw who the industry considers to be heroes….
I stand by my assessment. And interestingly enough, the VFX community will have to live with whatever the industry does or does not do. I, for one, will not have to.
@ scott
one of the most valuable lesson you could teach is negotiation skills and industry insight. you got to your position through negotiation and finding opportunity. yes? you could teach entrepreneurship much more effectively than the empty threat of ‘you’ll have to live with what you choose… so choose me! its your choice’
Jack, I’m not asking you or anyone else to chose me…. I have no interest in running a VFX Trade Association… I am just speaking my mind and calling it as I see it. If you don’t agree, fine… but, whatever the VFX industry does ( or doesn’t do) will not effect me, but it will effect the VFX industry.
I enjoy sharing my perspective, which I believe is unique and devoid of any fear….
Point taken Mr. Ross. You legally can’t stop anyone from unionizing. But what can you tell me what condition the company was in that caused people to be chanting “Union!”? And was there a time when DD tried to not pay overtime?
If you had to do it over again, would you run DD differently?
vfxaveragedude….
I don’t ever recall DD employees chanting “Union, Union, Union”.
I can say that TITANIC was a difficult time for DD. Yes, we won our first Oscar, and the work was groundbreaking… but we had a MoFo of a client, impossible deadlines, a studio that we were prohibited to negotiate with, a partner that threatened and ultimately took work to our biggest competitors, and a deadline that made us incur massive amounts of overtime. Again, I don’t recall DD not paying OT… we did in the beginning offer comp time as well as a basic 50 hour work week ( which included 10 hours of time and a half ).
As for doing DD differently? Of course…. there are always things one would do differently in hindsight, if not, one would be an absolute egotistical dilettante…. maybe if I was, then the industry might consider me a hero!!
We also offered a 401k and stock options…. and we were barely profitable.
oh, yeah… and comprehensive medical… as well as vacation…a well staffed HR Department….
You only offered those benefits to staff… which was about 25% of your production workforce. Most people left for Sony (the Sony back then, not now) which offered it to 90%, along with a big rate jump. Most of your tweets are about DD, but focus on Sony Scott… Those are people that need help right now.
vfxaveragedude…
The old Sony… the one that single handedly increased the cost of doing VFX in the 90’s while at the same time the same studio was bitching about how expensive VFX were, that Sony?
All I know is that at the time they were flush w Japanese yen, were spending money like drunken samurai’s and would do almost anything to leverage SPI as a major visual effects studio. They increased wages significantly and offered the world to their employees because they had a ton of money and an agenda that while not viable, was, if one had the deep pockets… buyable.
I’m not sure of the status of Sony’s SPI today. I made a comment last year that drew ire from SPI’s exec team. To me, SPI looked like it was trying to shutter its doors for years. After my comments at the SMPTE conference, I was contacted by their management and told that SPI was healthy and mos def not closing or for sale.
@ scott
thats interesting the costs going up by employees moving to sony.
if the employees now know that wages are subsidied are theyalso at fault for allowing subsidies to work? the studios/vfx facilities know htat the workforce is very flexible. willing to move.
Today John Textor, DDMG’s Chairman and CEO, stated publicly that Digital Domain will support an International Trade Association and has pledged $100,000 to fund it.
Congrats!
superb news.
looking foward. what are the milestones to look out for so it can be judged if its really happening or jsut a whitewash? regards
Incredible news!
we will need to reach out to the heads of other vfx facilities… do a press release….. etc..
Bidding and Cost Plus are terms that hail from the construction industry. The first one comes with a blue print the other comes with a sketch. Bidding on a sketch is a fools game, a game of shells. For visual effects it’s killed more creativity, disrupted more lives, and wrecked our trade. Until the Big 6 gunslingers realized they’ve shot off their own feet it probably won’t stop.
As Steve Huelett states so clearly. “It’s all about leverage”
It is interesting that this “trade association” is not questioned. To me, and maybe I’m wrong, it seems to be a massive assemblage of leverage from those that already have all of it
“Since 1982, The Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP) has been the trade association responsible for negotiating virtually all the industry-wide guild and union contracts, including the American Federation of Musicians (AFM); American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA); Directors Guild of America (DGA); International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees (IATSE); International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW); Laborers Local 724; Screen Actors Guild (SAG); Teamsters Local 399; and Writers Guild of America (WGA).
The AMPTP, the entertainment industry’s official collective bargaining representative, negotiates 80 industry-wide collective bargaining agreements on behalf of over 350 motion picture and television producers (member companies include the production entities of the studios, broadcast networks, certain cable networks and independent producers).”
Maybe there’s a clue in there for us.
I’m not sure if I understand your point, Dave. Scott wants to form a trade association to be added to that list of organizations that bargain with the AMPTP.
I’ve argued that I can’t think of a person who would be better to represent the visual effects studios across the table from Carol Lombardini. In my comment on his post, I wrote about my vision of the Trade Association and unionized VFX workers sitting together to bargain with the AMPTP that would bring lasting and meaningful change to our industry.
My “Pie In The Sky” vision that drives my daily routine.
@skaplan
i think unions are perfectly fine for keep wages up and working conditions better. a question. does a union allow as much innovation as non-union workplaces? my theory is that the more innovative a place is the more work they can get. regards.
I was responding to the potential question that soldier posted
“While I’m no lawyer, the studios (and or non-members) will probably break the trade association by arguing that the facilities are inhibiting competition”
My line of reasoning was that the AMPTP is exactly that..a trade association formed to maximize the leverage of the Six Studios it represents.
I don’t disagree with Soldier’s comment either…they probably would try to break it….you know …nothing person…it’s just business…mentality and the golden rule — the guys with all the gold make the rules.
Allow for innovation? Dreamworks has been union since its inception. Disney has been union since the early 50s. I’d say those are good examples of “Yes”.
thank you. regards.
scott is not correct when he says the jobs will all go to india/china. just as people in the 80s said that all the jobs were going to japan and barriers need to be put into place to stop them taking over from the US as the largest economy. did it happen. no.
as long as the innovation keeps coming, jobs will be created where there is enough capital and agglomeration exists. that is the US
I hope I’m wrong…. but a lot of the jobs, IMHO, will go to the low cost provider. It’s nothing personal, it’s just supply and demand economics.
supply and demand did not stop japan rise, a massive bubble in property did. checck what is happening in china- its the same the last i looked. soft or hard landing is only option for chinas property according to all financial analisys.
Jack.. I don’t portend to be an expert in global economics, it’s just my opinion.
scott – it only takes a few months of learning about econommics to know supply and demand more complex than that just saying it.
well, i do know that Jack… thanks.
btw, Jack, do you by chance also agree with the concept of trickle down?
scott- no and no i dont fit into any of the categories that i have read about. maybe a rational radical if any.
Here we are talking about it and in fact.. the jobs exodus has been ongoing for over a decade. I used to have this discussion with my tech colleagues in the 90’s. None of them thought China had the capacity to steamroll our tech industry. They have and the will continue to. China and India will continue to drain US jobs because they’re cheaper. Anyone arguing that labor costs don’t affect anything isn’t living in the real world.
There really is no way to stop it. Unions won’t. TA’s won’t. It is a natural leveling of global personal income. Band-Aids will slow it down but that’s all.
@ jonavark
really. so how can it with the demographic dividend ending in china and the associated cost of maintience of an older population , the lack of immigration to offset this aging and the massive property bubble killing credit expansion in china. no sir. wasnt the eu meant to compete with teh us 10 year ago? wait all the money funds are leaving the eu today. nothing is certain.
even though I haven’t studied economics in over 40 years, it seems that countries like India and China have more cash than ever before. It seems that countries like India and China’s financial success is due in large part to a competent and relatively skilled inexpensive work force. It seems that VFX companies are opening up shops in India and China because of the low cost labor pool and hi net worth individuals willing to bank roll these new efforts.
It seems that countries like India and China are starting to make inroads into the VFX business. I believe this will continue, and escalate.
@ scott
thats like saying house prices go up because they just do. one of the was the underlying driver of house prices was cheap credit. that was exposed as the fed rate was upped after the ‘put’ greenapsn had in was changed.
honestly the surface of india and china does not show the fundamentals. much has changed in 40 years since you studied.
@ scott
the changing fortunes of china. just 1 example
‘For the first time since 1998 more money leaves China than enters it’
http://www.economist.com/node/21559949
@scott
“china have more cash than ever before.”
why this has no real meaning. in todays finacial times. lookout for the words ponzi, capital flight, econmic growth.
‘Fund file: why China’s cash pile is not enough’
http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/08/05/fund-file-why-chinas-cash-pile-is-not-enough/#axzz22gCpCmxt
@ jonavark
“There really is no way to stop it. Unions won’t. TA’s won’t. It is a natural leveling of global personal income. Band-Aids will slow it down but that’s all.”
actually look up what drives the chinese economy. its know as neo-mercantilist economy. as the uk, us, japan etc had this before i think.. its a stage of economic development that just does not continue forever.
interesting points is the low exhange rate that acts as a tax on consumption and help exports. effectivly a subsidy . state support of industry- all the owners of major indsutrial sectors are from the governemtn.
there is no natural balancing of global incomes and it most definatlye will stop as it has in other countrues.
good to know Jack, thanks.
To spite what you may think of him, Scott is a very valuable voice at a time when this industry is so lacking in leaders, real leaders. There is a latent fear in the business that has crippled it and that fear is largely responsible for where we are now. It is a nice shot in the arm to hear an educated voice that has no fear.
I don’t agree with Scott when it comes to the Union perspective, but I do think he offers are very valuable view on the biz as a whole and not just the artists.
One major factor in what he offers in the discourse is, that no matter what the outcome, all of us, the workers, are either part of the problem or part of the solution. The longer people hold on to these fears the worse things will get.
It’s time to come out of the anonymous blog post, step out from behind your computers and actually do something tangible if you have any hope of saving this biz. I for one am one of those “holding my breath” people. My disappointment in this industry wasn’t the companies squeezing every advantage they could, it was the artists allowing it, and worse, not supporting each other when people chose not to put up with it. The community needs a major rallying cry and maybe a serious, fearless leader. As much as I love Scott, I’m not sure he is the cat for that gig. Then again, maybe he is. Shot in the arms can be a good thing.
There is a time in peoples lives that they need a good ass kicking, the vfx biz, needs a serious ass kicking. A lot of the artist in this biz, especially the younger ones, need a serious ass kicking.
sounds like YOU need some serious ass kicking. why dont you step out and start your own company. many of us have. apply your anger to productive means. you might not always work on tentpoles but you have no energy left for this diatribe after being responsible for all your action.
Jack, why take my comments so personally? Do you know me? Anger? Seems like the nerve I struck with you has misdirected you do make some assertion that couldn’t be farther from the truth. I’m super happy. Why? I no longer owe my life to vfx. It’s attitudes like yours that I am talking about.
Ass kicking can be taken literally or figuratively, it was meant figuratively, but your attitude seems to amplify exactly what I am talking about. Oh, I do own my own company. It’s not VFX.
Give me a call anytime if you would like to discuss things I’d be happy to clarify my points and we would be doing exactly what I was talking about. Stepping out from behind the computer.
Warm regards,
310-923-2613 yes, that is my number.
@ Caleb.
ummm. why are you posting here if:
1. you are not in vfx.
2. you run a company outside of vfx.
You obfuscate solutions to the current issues. You try to raise the troops to offer solutions to your historical experience. nice one.
Jack,
1. look me up, I’m not hiding behind a name like “Jack” . google works well.
2. It is possible to do more the one thing in life.
3. I’m smart enough to know that I’m the worst at diplomacy, so my leadership skills in the arena of organizing troops in this field would be futile. Culturally speaking, I’m a bit of an outcast in the vfx community.
4. If a convincing solid movement were to take place that I could get behind, I wouldn’t hesitate to stand up and help in any way possible.
5. I’m man enough to not hide behind a false name and speak my mind in other places besides the interwebs. There is an entire world out there.
If you care to continue to disrespect me or bait me, please feel free to use my phone number or email. cro@crocustoms.com Maybe we can clear up any confusion you may have with my place in the world, or what you may think of it.
Kind regards,
cro
@ Caleb
You have no dog in this race. get it.
Didn’t know it was a race Jack. And just who are you to tell me I “have no dog in this race”? Shall we keep this pissing match going that you initiated? My guess would be, that in a real public forum you wouldn’t be so brazen and such an asshole. Again,feel free to use my contact info any time.
I’ll choose to speak whenever I see fit to spite your juvenile internet muscle trolls.
Jack, it would seem to me that your contributions are behind some veil of the internet version of some company owner no one knows. So, is your fight more valuable than mine? Just how is it more valuable Jack? Please tell all of us your history? Or should we just accept everything Jack post to be the be all end all? get it.
Please call me Jack, I really would love to chat. Really.
Back to real life.
Warm regards,
@ Caleb
tell me how solution of starting a company outside of vfx is the solution to the problems of being vfx artist? i see no connection.
had you also noticed that vfxsoldier is anonmous?
@ caleb
“y guess would be, that in a real public forum you wouldn’t be so brazen and such an asshole. ”
just as you have labelled me I would label you as someone with good intentions but of no relevance, please speak away as much as you want. my mistake to have engaged with you. regards
Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks.
Jimmy Wales, Keynote Speech, SXSW 2006
This blog is so helpful. I really think the progress we have made is because of it, not disregarding the work from some many many people who have stepped up (of course).
But I agree that anonymity has really brought us to a road block. It gives people a chance to go head to head with some of the leading figures who have been in this industry for a decade and beyond. I used an anon name in the past, but after seeing the way things are headed with this “troll/flame” mentality, I really feel that putting a face on the “vfx artist” is whats holding us all down.
i see no road block. just very hard work to learn it yourself. I prefer ground up education of indiviual artists. everyone can benefit from it and not rely on one person. sure have strong leader but every artist should learn more business aswell to make industry overall stronger.
Scott, are you available for some consulting?
only if I could actually be of some real assistance.
I would love a chat. Shoot me an email at dfairbairn@matchthemotion.com
“Jack says:
just as you have labelled me I would label you as someone with good intentions but of no relevance, please speak away as much as you want. my mistake to have engaged with you. regards”
Jack, please tell us how exactly you are relevant? You’re responses to my posts are shining examples of what exactly I am talking about. You are succeeding in doing nothing but proving my point about the “community”. Just the fact that you responded as you did, pin pointing my southern satire regarding “ass kicking” ,illustrates that you fit the bill. You ignored 95% of my points.
Your anonymity makes you irrelevant. Not matter what you say, how well you may say it, you are just a “Jack” with no face. How sir, is that relevant?
While initially I think the idea to start this blog with anonymity was a good one, now I think it is, well, irrelevant. As long as I’ve been around, almost 20 years now, there has been talk. There is always talk. People bitch and complain at lunch time about this about that, but they do nothing. Zero. Oh wait, there is a blog to bitch. Outcomes?
Don’t get me wrong dialogue is important and I think just the fact that this is happening is a huge step from 10 years ago. But at some point someone will have to step up and do some real work. My guess is they wont be named “Jack”. I admire a hand full of cats that are at least speaking out, like Dave Rand, Scott Ross,Scott Squires etc. It takes courage to put yourself out there “Jack”.
I’ve always cared about justice with artists, so much so that when I had middle management jobs at vfx companies I wasn’t the favorite of the producers etc. because I protected the people that worked under me. Not a great idea, yes men do some much better in those jobs. The point is, while I’ve had one foot out of the bix for years, I still care about it and what happens to it and again, if a real movement steps out of the shadows I’d be the first one in line to support and work my ass off, instead of baiting people on blogs. Plus, my tacked leaves something to be desired. get it.
There have been a number of action items this blog has put together:
Drive various organizational meetings in the US and Canada.
Expose nefarious activities by schools, major studios, and facilities that have been covered by national and international media outlets.
Submitted a statement to the European Commission which has been accepted and will be used in their decision on film subsidies this summer.
Currently bringing a trade case that will enlist the services of legal counsel to combat subsidies.
I’ve also been in contact with federal government officials on the issue of subsidies. In fact just this week I was contacted by a lobbyist who currently helping draft international trade agreements.
If anything the thing that has slowed me down has been that fact that I’m doing this all while working very long hours with a full time vfx job.
Don’t forget the huge contribution by individuals like Dave Rand, Scott Squires, Scott Ross, Steve Kaplan, Steve Hulett, Bob Oedy, the people behind SPIunion, and countless others.
Sad to hear you think all I do is “bitch”
I proudly wear my VFX soldier pin…
Not implying to you at all, I was making a broader statement on the community as a whole. I’ve sent you a few personal emails commending you on all your efforts. Here Here..
Keep it up!! I am a supporter.
i simply deal with the facts, not personalities.
facts can be obscured by personalities or the marketing of companies. e.g. do you ever hear from companies that they have an amazing opportunity in xzy country,state because of subsidize. no. they say ‘we are there for the long hall’ career opportunity’ etc. the underlining fact is that without the subsidy they would not be there.
i see fundamental faults by the currrent leadership. a pure lack of economic understanding that is there is no free lunch allowing for free work/subsidized work to happen.
misplacing cause and effect- analytical looks at bad contracts using onesided logic that endorses unjust working conditions
re anonymity; a person with a name did not make us aware of subsidies as much as someone without, that person is ‘vfx soldier’
i do not care if you have a name or not. play the ball, not the person.
I agree with the above comments some have made regarding anonymity. It’s one of the things that is really preventing any sort of community effort from taking hold. Having said that, I think we should give soldier a pass.
@ Michael
the answer is to start a forum like vfx soldier where the community of named souls can exist and express themselves. if it works great. so far they just are not as effective as an this way.
the probalem of names is that one defers to the authority of the name instead of teh argument they are creating. should i or anyone not question scott for his flawed supply and demand argumetn because he is the king and i am a minion?
names are labels and people follow labels. vfx soldier has built his/her name based on the arguments. not on being that person who is a supervisor/senior vfx person.
@ Micheal
the supply and demand model is a very significant point in scotts argumetn in that jobs will go overseas. that is why i questioned it. just as the idea thay ‘subsidies just work’ argument that was used before to say subsidise are good and should be used. i do have other arguments to support subsidise btu that i would use it to attack econmic usnion and floating exchange rates. in the current model of economics subsidise do not work as advertised.
Suppose a new vfx house were to be established, one which offered artists far better pay and benefits than the industry has ever seen before, plus hefty signing bonuses. Suppose that company hired every established senior vfx artist in the world. An international vfx powerhouse with say twelve thousand employees, and the only entity in the world capable of delivering the cutting edge big-budget tentpole effects that the major studios now rely on. Suppose that company then played tough with the studios and rewrote the industry rulebook, in our favor. No union or “voluntary organizing” needed, no discussion or compromises; simply money talks.
Who’d run the business? I nominate Scott Ross. That’s what he should do.
I really like your optimism, I really do. But this is wishful thinking.
sure is…..
There can be endless discussion about what should and can be done but any new endeavor requires a huge focus and effort. And if there is one thing we have proven is that we suck at that.
Meanwhile there is a group that already represents every other craft on the movie or TV set and almost every other area of post production. They have existing contracts, a healthcare system in place with portable benefits and they get residuals in the form of supporting that health care plan as well as a pension plan. A track record of negotiations with the very producers we discuss. They seek to help us.
When was the last time you took a paid vacation? Had a sick day? Did you get July 4th off to avoid holiday pay and then work the Saturday after as a regular day or did you just work both? Did you get paid extra for either?
Would it break the back of some vfx companies? Maybe the ones that don’t compete on a level playing field and don’t follow labor laws. No tears.
Would it drive work away? Work that is going away will go away no matter what. Where the work goes people there will discover the same things we already know. We have the internet, let’s get the world involved in these issues. Level the playing field of information.
We drive the box office, we have no power. Not as facilities, not as artists. We do nothing except go on forums and snipe each other. Somewhere there is a roomful of executives laughing at us.
… or things can stay the same.
Amen Jeff, amen.
agreed. from alsmot 20 years experience ive onlly seen abotu 1% want to work back long hours. everyone else doesnt and they should not need to. dont let the 1% tell you its ok!
[…] ILM General Manager and Digital Domain Founder Scott Ross made an announcement tonight on my last post: Today John Textor, DDMG’s Chairman and CEO, stated publicly that Digital Domain will support an […]
great start…. now we need 5 more major facilities…. ILM, WETA, R&H, D Neg, The Mill, PF, Pixelmondo, Framestore, MPC….
Hopefully we won’t discover aliens on distant planets, these companies would otherwise think of outsourcing in outer space…
I’m emailing JetLab right now asking them to stop looking!
well, at least scott ross makes me laugh more now than when i worked for him.
ross and textor, the devil and the deep blue sea, teaming up. what could possibly go wrong?
watch your backs artists, and remember, a kind word and a knife always gets more than a kind word.
hey sucker…. I hope I am the “Devil”… because I don’t swim very well!
Mark Dubowitz
What Should Scott Ross Do? | VFX Soldier